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  1. #1
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    Default Anyone care to weigh in on Ne vs NiSe at work?

    So I first asked this question on a thread named INFJ Mistype videos in an exchange with the op.

    I wanted to explore this a little more elsewhere because i'm pretty sure I was getting on the op's nerves
    But we were discussing how INFJ's would communicate. (the op said i'm an INFP )
    I asked :

    " If in conversation Se is taking in objective external stimuli and Ni is also at work what would that look like? How do you measure the disparity between NiSe at work v Ne. If Ne is objectively intuiting external stimuli and NiSe is subjectively intuiting external stimuli what does that look like? How does that manifest itself in conversation?"

    any takers?
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  2. #2
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    You're better off reading up about Fi IMO. Fi and Fe are completely different and there is a good amount of information about Fi online (though most seems slighty confused or completely abstract and completely subjective to the individual who wrote it which is then passed off as universal.

    How I experience NeSi is probably far less efficient than the ENPs but a big component is of Si. If you're introverted you will have lightbulb moments but they are experienced internally which I assume is adding to the confusion. But the biggest difference is that NeSi will store whole objects in the mind (e.g. a table or chair) and then the Ne will link the two together by a shared trait - four legs. It can also allow patterns to be identified but the mind will reference these stored real objects and confirm that they have shared traits which supports the pattern as factually accurate. It works with wholes and the dominant function will break down the whole object if it can so traits can be identified.

    NiSe works the other way, a large number of tiny pieces come in and the Ni will form a pattern from them which is then stored and can then later be referenced. The external judging function helps the Ni in determining whether the patterns have any basis in reality. NiSe builds wholes from the millions of tiny fragments.

    tl;dr version: NiSe is a bottom-up system whilst NeSi is a top-down system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    tl;dr version: NiSe is a bottom-up system whilst NeSi is a top-down system.
    NiSe users tend to be "earthy" and crude in their humor while NeSi users don't.
    NiSe see 1 large big picture life goal they plan on accomplishing that is often quite practical and doable. NeSi don't. (Ni user will say "I want to start an orphanage" while an Ne user might say, "donate for world peace") lmao...
    NiSe enjoy struggle and force of will. NeSi don't.
    NiSe users enjoy power games in relationship. NeSi do not.

    What does "objectively intuiting external stimuli" even mean? Cuz I don't know.

    If you have Ni, you will gain subjective intuitions that spontaneously pop up in your head like, "omg, jesus was actually black!" This is why Ni doms are probably the most paranoid, and a lot of them are into conspiracy theories. They're getting the information but they're not really sure where its coming from.

    Ne users will gain intuitions based on direct experience in an environment in that moment. Its there. From what I understand they're objective even though Ne users in my opinion tend to be the most narcissistic and full of themsleves because these "unseen" things can often be pulled straight out of their ass. This is why there's a clear difference when ESTP's walk what they talk, in comparison to ENTP's who just tell everyone how fantastic they are at everything with no real clear proof.

    Ni users are most likely to plan their own funerals, while Ne users are most likely to get frustrated because they want to do 8 things at once but don't know where to start. Ni is much more focused and singular than Ne is.

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    Did you intentionally quote me? You answer seems completely aimed at the OP?

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    Perhaps Ni/Se can be thought of as a balance between "it is what it is" and "what is it, really"? The former begs the latter, but the former can also answer the latter.

  6. #6
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    Sorry this is so long lol I am awfully long winded .Feel free to skim or maybe I'll just add a TLDR

    So what i'm seeing is...um OK take a puzzle for instance. NiSe takes in all the tiny pieces Of a puzzle and then constructs a larger picture. They are the puzzle buyers. Sitting inside on a rainy day with grandma fitting each piece together.N eSi sees the completed puzzle and then separates the interconnected pieces. They are the puzzle company manufacturing. Going out talkig pictures of things and then it running the machines cutting up all the pieces.
    @Standuble So how would a person know which they were using. If an NiSe user werer using this process how much of the process would they be conscious of? In their mind would it appear as though they were just seeing the Big picture first ,not being able to see the pieces or would they have to be able to trace their thought process backwards to figure out how they arrived at the big picture?

    I'm trying to figure out which one I use. Sometimes I feel like I just know things and it takes me a while to go back into my mind and find evidence for the things I know. Based in the comments here that kinda sounds like Ne but only if Ni is not subconscious. If Ni is a subconscious function to the user it would appear to be big picture first because they can't instantly go back and deduce how they arrived at something? If those little pieces they used to make that picture are not readily available to the user all they see is the picture. Even thought those pieces are being stored to be used later on and will produce that ah Ha moment . (That is something I identify with). If an Ni user is not fully aware of what is going on in their minds it's going to look like big picture to them. If i'm not mistaken that's where the subjectivity come into play. What does it look like to the user? It would be a difficult question to answer from a singular point of view hence the confusion lol. This has really helped tho.

    I think this is what @DJ Arendee was saying (and he can confirm if he would like too.) I'd also like to thank him for his examples. Oddly enough I told a joke that made my friend not speak to me for months. We just reconciled this week. I'm not making this up lol. I posted a thread about it.( she admitted to being over emotional and accepted the fact that it as not intended to hurt her, I apologized for unintentionally hurting her with my use of humor). I went to business school to start my own non-profit for underprivileged children. I have had my 5-10 year plan drawn up for years and I spent the past two years networking with guest speakers,professors and small business that work with my university to make that a reality. I'm currently working with a small business now for my internship and I plan to work with march of dimes this summer. My electives are negotiation classes so I pretty much chose to argue twice a week for a grade. It's one of my favorite classes. I also debated all through H.s on a state wide debate team. Needless to say I enjoy healthy power struggle. I'm being completely honest here. I really identify with your examples of NiSe it's almost uncanny.

    Maybe my understanding of myself was flawed. Maybe when I was explaining Ni I as operating from a subjective view?Perhaps this is the use of Ne but with your examples being so consistent with my life I doubt it. Now that you know a little bit more about me I hope you can see why I respectfully disagree with you typing me as an INFP. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your post. You didn't have to comment on this thread but thanks for taking the time out to further explain this to me and continue the discussion. You have awarded me some clarity whether you agree with my deductions or not.To gain more clarity maybe I just need to to keep looking for subjective Uses or explanations of Ni and Fi. Maybe look around for some INTJ/INFJ or INFP forums?
    @Standuble do you care to give any more insight of your use of FiNe as an INFP? If you don't mind based on my brief description of myself do I strike you as an INFP?

    TLDR

    So.NiSe takes in all the tiny pieces Of a puzzle and then constructs a larger picture. They are the puzzle buyers. Sitting inside on a rainy day with grandma fitting each piece together.N eSi sees the completed puzzle and then separates the interconnected pieces. They are the puzzle company manufacturing. Going out talkeing pictures of things and then it running the machines cutting up all the pieces.

    How much of Ni is conscious? Even though the are putting the pieces together if this is done subconsciously when they try to explain their ah ha moments won't it look like they are working backwards from the larger picture even though this is not how their brain is actually working?


    Brief description of myself that was in line with examples given regarding NiSe:

    I told a joke that made my friend not speak to me for months. We just reconciled this week. I'm not making this up lol. I posted a thread about it.

    I went to business school to start my own non-profit for underprivileged children.

    I have had my 5-10 year plan drawn up for years and I spent the past two years networking with guest speakers,professors and small business that work with my university to make that a reality.

    My electives are negotiation classes. I also debated all through H.s on a state wide debate team.

    ( If you don't mind based on my brief description of myself do I strike you as an INFP?)
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Did you intentionally quote me? You answer seems completely aimed at the OP?
    oh... originally there was a "yes I agree" but that got edited out somewhere along the way.

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    @iNtrovert - Your judging function (usually internal judging function) is useful for identifying the perceiving processes. I believe NPs have it easier as they have a much stronger Ji function than NJs. So I would suggest you read up about Fi and Fe as Fi is easy to spot if you know what you're looking for (though it's difficult to describe to another.)

    FiNe usually operates with the Ne bringing a number of possibilities to the table. For example today I made the determination with my amount of savings that I could start my own business (in the morning), take flying lessons (about lunchtime) and work towards emigrating (about 90 minutes ago.) The Fi determines how much the goal is valued (it does not give a quantitative figure but its closer to "more than" or "less than." Thus I would work towards realising a goal (more the inferior Te) providing the Fi value for the projected state of existence is > the current quality of life and the other possiblities. If the value of the possibility drops (Fi does re-evaluate a lot and the determined value can change quickly) or another possibility presents itself which has a higher value the former is abandoned and the new one is adopted.

    Edit: A few additional points:
    A) Don't confuse Fi for emotion, they are two seperate entities. You do not determine subjective value via emotion. Listening to emotion over Fi usually leads to problems if the Fi is unable to re-align itself with what the emotion entails or what following it will require from the person.
    B) Fi-doms are not interested that much in what lies outside of the Fi's values. For example I do not care that much about starving African children but I do value spending money on new technologies and the like.
    C) You will have a hard time following and doing that which you do not value at all.

  9. #9
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    Ok yea I don't do that lol. The fact that it's even possible is making me uncomfortable. I more or less have a plan for everything I want to accomplish . I go down the line and mentally check things off but I rarely deviate from my premeditated course of action.If I am forced to it's hard for me to cope with. Reevaluating on a greater of less than scale like that doesn't describe me . I set a goal and break that goal into tasks. Once that task is finished I move on to the next one until I reach my goal. I you were to ask me what I am doing to day and any given moment I can pretty much tell you. I schedule free time when the most important things are done and I'm content with my progress . In that space I'll pick and choose what I feel like doing but that's about it lol.
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post
    Ok yea I don't do that lol. The fact that it's even possible is making me uncomfortable. I more or less have a plan for everything I want to accomplish . I go down the line and mentally check things off but I rarely deviate from my premeditated course of action.If I am forced to it's hard for me to cope with. Reevaluating on a greater of less than scale like that doesn't describe me . I set a goal and break that goal into tasks. Once that task is finished I move on to the next one until I reach my goal. I you were to ask me what I am doing to day and any given moment I can pretty much tell you. I schedule free time when the most important things are done and I'm content with my progress . In that space I'll pick and choose what I feel like doing but that's about it lol.
    From that I would assume INFJ. I don't know about other INFPs but in regards to the above thought process: it's so natural to me and it is so deeply woven in my mind that part of me still cannot believe that most others don't do that, even though it has been years since I discovered the MBTI. After I wrote the above post my brain wondered whether I worded the above correct, as it decided to believe that everyone thinks like that and that it wasn't specific enough. It's a stubborn little bugger at times

    If you are sure you're not an SFJ or ENFJ then I would suggest you study Fe. Fe adapts itself to the values of the surrounding environment, the person's values gradually change and causes themselves to measure themselves by how far away from the standard they are. Fi cares only about its own values and measures you only by how far your actions and lifestyle are from what you value. However I am not 100% certain on how NiFe interacts and how much Ni will cause a deviation from the above description (which is more Fe-dom IMO.)

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