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  1. #11
    WALMART
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    An analysis I wrote some time ago: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-vs-se-ni.html


    I've since spotted errors in my thinking.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I don't know about other INFPs but in regards to the above thought process: it's so natural to me and it is so deeply woven in my mind that part of me still cannot believe that most others don't do that, even though it has been years since I discovered the MBTI.
    This is what I do as well, so you're not the only one. My mother (ENTP - so, Fe-user) doesn't understand why I'm not interested in getting higher marks to get a good job and function well in society - the whole problem that she puts in the front is a side-note to me.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  3. #13
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    This is what I do as well, so you're not the only one. My mother (ENTP - so, Fe-user) doesn't understand why I'm not interested in getting higher marks to get a good job and function well in society - the whole problem that she puts in the front is a side-note to me.
    Interesting. Are you sure she isn't an ENFJ? This sounds more ExFJ to me (of course, that is incredibly black and white- I know Fi users who think like this). From my ENTP perspective, I wan to flip off society and be successful my way, as much as possible. It angers me when someone tells me I "have to get good marks to function well." Not true.

    I think my Fe rebels because my Ne feels rejected.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Interesting. Are you sure she isn't an ENFJ? This sounds more ExFJ to me (of course, that is incredibly black and white- I know Fi users who think like this). From my ENTP perspective, I wan to flip off society and be successful my way, as much as possible. It angers me when someone tells me I "have to get good marks to function well." Not true.

    I think my Fe rebels because my Ne feels rejected.
    I think she's ENTP (though I've considered ENTJ as well). I think that when she was younger she had her own fantastic dreams, but they've shifted with time due to external influence (stuff like "you've got to get a real job").

    Now that you mention it, I've always considered my mother to be an ENTX, and never really looked at ENFJ. It would explain some differences between her and other ENTPs. I'll consider it some more. Thank you!
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    I think she's ENTP (though I've considered ENTJ as well). I think that when she was younger she had her own fantastic dreams, but they've shifted with time due to external influence (stuff like "you've got to get a real job").

    Now that you mention it, I've always considered my mother to be an ENTX, and never really looked at ENFJ. It would explain some differences between her and other ENTPs. I'll consider it some more. Thank you!
    No problem. ENTJ is very reasonable. Every ENTP I've known/read about seems to hate "having" to do things and will fight the system, the man, whatever until they get the result they want doing it their way.

    Ex: I got poor marks in high school (well, semi-poor) because I hated working with the system and brown-nosing, etc (much like many INFPs)

    My ENFJ sister is a straight-A student, wants to please parents, teachers, etc. Will work in the system and suck up.

    I think the best way to tell an ENFJ from an ENTJ is to look at Fi and Te, or the lack thereof in the ENFJ. IME, ENFJs tend to be open to being merciful, understanding, etc, and are very charismatic. I haven't met very many charismatic ENTJs- at least, not ones that use Fe in charisma. It is more of a commanding, dominating charisma, if that makes sense.

    ENTPs seem more about creating the individual than either ENTJs or ENFJs (please correct me if I'm wrong).
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  6. #16
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    This is what I do as well, so you're not the only one. My mother (ENTP - so, Fe-user) doesn't understand why I'm not interested in getting higher marks to get a good job and function well in society - the whole problem that she puts in the front is a side-note to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Interesting. Are you sure she isn't an ENFJ? This sounds more ExFJ to me (of course, that is incredibly black and white- I know Fi users who think like this). From my ENTP perspective, I wan to flip off society and be successful my way, as much as possible. It angers me when someone tells me I "have to get good marks to function well." Not true.

    I think my Fe rebels because my Ne feels rejected.

    You touched on it, but yes - wanting your child to get good grades will likely be ingrained in any decent parent, not inherent to EFJ's.


    If I had a dime for every FJ parent...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    You touched on it, but yes - wanting your child to get good grades will likely be ingrained in any decent parent, not inherent to EFJ's.


    If I had a dime for every FJ parent...
    Disclaimer: this is all IME

    It's true- and I can only speak for the mothers I have known. My INFJ mom has always been on me for not turning in my work- but she wants me to learn for herself.

    The ESFJ moms (softball/soccer moms, as I call them) are obsessed with having perfect children

    ENFP moms seem to not care as much and just want their kids to be creative

    INFP mom I know wants her kids to find their own paths and do well, however they get there

    Dads

    The ExTJ dad thinks that the only way to succeed in life is to get a degree at Harvard/the equivalent

    ISTP dad says "fight the man...but do well"

    So this kind of gives a review of different functions in men and women.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    This is what I do as well, so you're not the only one. My mother (ENTP - so, Fe-user) doesn't understand why I'm not interested in getting higher marks to get a good job and function well in society - the whole problem that she puts in the front is a side-note to me.
    That is good to hear. Reminds me of my ESFJ mother heh.

    I was however referring to Fi itself. The act of only wanting to do that which I valued the most, the feeling of my mind determining what is most valued, the seamless way the values go up and down and how my mind moves from one object to another, skimming and stopping to only quickly evaluate its worth before moving on to the next. That was what I once thought everybody possessed. It is still strange to me.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    No problem. ENTJ is very reasonable. Every ENTP I've known/read about seems to hate "having" to do things and will fight the system, the man, whatever until they get the result they want doing it their way.

    Ex: I got poor marks in high school (well, semi-poor) because I hated working with the system and brown-nosing, etc (much like many INFPs)

    My ENFJ sister is a straight-A student, wants to please parents, teachers, etc. Will work in the system and suck up.

    I think the best way to tell an ENFJ from an ENTJ is to look at Fi and Te, or the lack thereof in the ENFJ. IME, ENFJs tend to be open to being merciful, understanding, etc, and are very charismatic. I haven't met very many charismatic ENTJs- at least, not ones that use Fe in charisma. It is more of a commanding, dominating charisma, if that makes sense.

    ENTPs seem more about creating the individual than either ENTJs or ENFJs (please correct me if I'm wrong).
    I can't say I'm getting poor marks (they are a lot higher than the averages for the grade) but her expectations of me are much closer to 100%. I have the potential to raise my marks to that level, but I'm not putting in the effort - and we both know that - because I tend to put my interests ahead of my marks. She tells me about how my interests won't provide a great income for myself and a possible, future family and children; she's not aware that I don't mind living a semi-ascetic life to stick to my interests and won't put a child through a poor life to comfort my instinct to procreate and have somebody take care of me when I'm old.

    But, yes, I hate the system too; it makes no sense to me - too much useless information that I will never have anything to do with and neither want anything to do with. Those who constantly fret about their marks and careers I simply see as slave-like and want nothing to do with, regardless of what their income will be.

    Similar feeling in you?
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post
    So I first asked this question on a thread named INFJ Mistype videos in an exchange with the op.

    I wanted to explore this a little more elsewhere because i'm pretty sure I was getting on the op's nerves
    But we were discussing how INFJ's would communicate. (the op said i'm an INFP )
    I asked :

    " If in conversation Se is taking in objective external stimuli and Ni is also at work what would that look like? How do you measure the disparity between NiSe at work v Ne. If Ne is objectively intuiting external stimuli and NiSe is subjectively intuiting external stimuli what does that look like? How does that manifest itself in conversation?"

    any takers?
    I see NiSe users "having answers out of nowhere." Most of the ones I know consider themselves to be psychic.

    My NeSi recognizes past recognized patterns and applies them, consciously or unconsciously, to "appear psychic." I think that NiSe is a lot more unconscious than NeSi, so NiSe users say things like:

    "I just know"

    "I can't explain why, but I just know"

    "I'm having trouble putting it into words"

    "I have a bad feeling"

    "It isn't irrational, it is true. I know it is true, I'm always right."

    NeSi:

    "Let's talk about the similarities between beavers and clouds. Beavers float in water and clouds float in air. So for fish beavers are like clouds."

    "Well you see, x relates to y because I remember that y is equal to a, b and c and x is equal to d, e, and f. So they are related, sort of...and this is why my view of the alphabet is a juxtaposed one."

    "The badger did it! I noticed that despite the fact that he was in a wheelchair, he had scuff marks on his shoes." (Taken from The Mentalist...sort of).

    Granted, this is also my NeTi perspective.

    @Aesthete

    I can't say I'm getting poor marks (they are a lot higher than the averages for the grade) but her expectations of me are much closer to 100%. I have the potential to raise my marks to that level, but I'm not putting in the effort - and we both know that - because I tend to put my interests ahead of my marks. She tells me about how my interests won't provide a great income for myself and a possible, future family and children; she's not aware that I don't mind living a semi-ascetic life to stick to my interests and won't put a child through a poor life to comfort my instinct to procreate and have somebody take care of me when I'm old.
    This does not sound ENTP in the slightest. Not even a teeny bit, except maybe the income part...and that really pertains to E3's I think.

    Also, I got okay marks- I considered a B to be a failure at that age.

    But, yes, I hate the system too; it makes no sense to me - too much useless information that I will never have anything to do with and neither want anything to do with. Those who constantly fret about their marks and careers I simply see as slave-like and want nothing to do with, regardless of what their income will be.

    Similar feeling in you?
    Yes, a very similar feeling. For some people, success is happiness, but it isn't true happiness. It is like eating greasy fries or ramen for a week when you are hungry: you are full, and content, but you feel like you are missing something.

    I understand that we need systems- but I wish we had alternative systems for people who think like me/us. Project based, or something to that effect. Something that would help us to our greatest potential. For me, memorizing facts and regurgitating them isn't the essence of my being.

    It is about memorizing facts and extrapolating. I've created concepts my teachers consider remarkable, and nothing was regurgitated- merely backed up.

    This is why I hate school and I try to do things in as creative a way as possible.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

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