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  1. #11
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    Whoa, this is a cool find.

    However,
    I generally don't accept subjects who have brain injury, or are on medication that might affect their mental activity, or have been labeled with a diagnosed mental disorder.
    Shit.

  2. #12
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I thought what both had to say was interesting. One quote:

    "The number one thing I work with the majority of female clients is their ability to develop personal boundaries and their notion of trust. More often than not, there's a sense that having strong boundaries isn't worth the risk of losing "personal connection"/"love"/"community". "

    Is that why women always talk about boundaries and how important they are - or at least it is an issue they struggle with?

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I wonder if it extends to all types?
    Dear god, I hope not. ISTJ as my future? Like I need to get any more boring....
    No offense ISTJs.... except, dear god, we're a dull bunch!

    What he notes is similarity in brain regions & processes, not demeanors/visible personality (because they still self-type & are identified as different types).... I suppose similar thinking can still lead to different behaviors & demeanors & conclusions (perhaps the same regions/processes are used in different ways, applied to different "problems"). Conversely, that's why two types within a temperament who don't share any functions can often come to similar conclusions & even share common traits.

    My observation of older INFPs (in person) is they get more Ne-ish. They get kind of looser, more comfortable in their own skin, more open about Feeling.

    So I think I'm headed for the bright lights of Ne-tropolis, not the SiTe morgue :crosses fingers:

    Anyhow, I wished I had been able to ask a question. No one asked what I wanted to know. Oh well, maybe in the future. Some interesting stuff, still.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I thought what both had to say was interesting. One quote:

    "The number one thing I work with the majority of female clients is their ability to develop personal boundaries and their notion of trust. More often than not, there's a sense that having strong boundaries isn't worth the risk of losing "personal connection"/"love"/"community". "

    Is that why women always talk about boundaries and how important they are - or at least it is an issue they struggle with?
    Fe.
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  4. #14
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    @OrangeAppled I would agree with your observation about older INFPs. We shouldn't become dull (if we do we probably would not care.) Based on my observations of my ISTJ brother it's the lack of Ne which makes him boring (though the very strong Si doesn't help.) I can't see INFPs having that problem. I see the outcome being a balanced and productive member of society; a developed Si to make Ne more streamlined, efficient and inventine and a Te to create tolerance for tasks the Fi has no value for.

  5. #15
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Dear god, I hope not. ISTJ as my future? Like I need to get any more boring....
    No offense ISTJs.... except, dear god, we're a dull bunch!

    What he notes is similarity in brain regions & processes, not demeanors/visible personality (because they still self-type & are identified as different types).... I suppose similar thinking can still lead to different behaviors & demeanors & conclusions (perhaps the same regions/processes are used in different ways, applied to different "problems"). Conversely, that's why two types within a temperament who don't share any functions can often come to similar conclusions & even share common traits.

    My observation of older INFPs (in person) is they get more Ne-ish. They get kind of looser, more comfortable in their own skin, more open about Feeling.

    So I think I'm headed for the bright lights of Ne-tropolis, not the SiTe morgue :crosses fingers:

    Anyhow, I wished I had been able to ask a question. No one asked what I wanted to know. Oh well, maybe in the future. Some interesting stuff, still.
    one important difference is that your identity and a vast chunk of your learning will still be assymetrical. you'll still have acquired more foundational intelligence in terms of Fi. but you will be more balanced in how you reprocess that and in your ability to be present in more ways in the future. you'll still be there, but the context will be bigger.

    but in the meantime, you might as well start applying for that MA in library science right now. i hear there's lots of indexing!

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
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    touche. i'm curious as to what he'd do to work on such issues.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    but in the meantime, you might as well start applying for that MA in library science right now. i hear there's lots of indexing!
    ah, that's funny, only because my istj mother got an MA in Library Science back in the day. /funny when stereotypes line up.

    It's interesting to me though that per above discourse, INxP's often seem to have an aversion to their ISxJ counterparts (or at least, lack more of the aspirational element), whereas myself as an INxJ have more of an aspirational thing going w/ ISxP's - I think ISxP's are pretty great in many ways, and I think Se can be really beneficial/great to my own balance and such; I also derive a lot of.... much-needed zen/peace of mind/value/*pleasure* from activities more stereotypically associated with Se. I guess what I'm saying, is it's a pretty crucial component of my personality/psychae.
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  7. #17
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    I saved the link. I'm willing to examine the brain region areas tied to behavior that Nardi is suggesting. Most texts seem to be less educated when discussing brain region, it seems little too simplistic... but Nardi seems more nuanced in his basic descriptions.

    As far as "almost opposites," definitely I can see an ISFJ-ish side to me... of course it didn't help I was married to one for 20 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I thought what both had to say was interesting. One quote:

    "The number one thing I work with the majority of female clients is their ability to develop personal boundaries and their notion of trust. More often than not, there's a sense that having strong boundaries isn't worth the risk of losing "personal connection"/"love"/"community". "

    Is that why women always talk about boundaries and how important they are - or at least it is an issue they struggle with?
    That's a good question. The relational web has been referred to as a common female pattern since at least Carol Gilligan's "In a Different Voice" in the 70's and probably before that. Communication exchanges are transactions rather than combats, and identity can become more diffuse when spreading out through a web.

    Due to cultural shift, I would be interested to see where this is in 30-40 years, once we have new generations in adulthood as opposed to those raised in a very traditional setting.

    Typically females have given/adjusted to others as part of the negotiation, putting themselves as risk. Women who feel too at risk will shut the "dangerous" people out or succumb.

    Thought it was funny when I went to therapy, part of my issue was learning to develop healthy ego boundaries; I ended up giving too much to make things work and losing my sense of self in the process.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    ah, that's funny, only because my istj mother got an MA in Library Science back in the day. /funny when stereotypes line up.
    i've actually seen a few infps go into it. whereas other infps i know typically qualify for a clinical diagnosis in "fear of filing." totally, totally, totally Si development difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    It's interesting to me though that per above discourse, INxP's often seem to have an aversion to their ISxJ counterparts (or at least, lack more of the aspirational element), whereas myself as an INxJ have more of an aspirational thing going w/ ISxP's - I think ISxP's are pretty great in many ways, and I think Se can be really beneficial/great to my own balance and such; I also derive a lot of.... much-needed zen/peace of mind/value from activities more stereotypically associated with Se. I guess what I'm saying, is it's a pretty crucial component of my personality/psychae.
    i'll be honest and say i don't feel the same thing. i'm learning yoga right now, but i still fucking hate actually DOING it. Se still feels stressful to me. it seems so fundamentally difficult to motivate. whereas i can read about it, consume it intellectually, draw mind maps about it, create new flavors of jelly bean out of it, etc. for fucking lifetimes.

  9. #19
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's a good question. The relational web has been referred to as a common female pattern since at least Carol Gilligan's "In a Different Voice" in the 70's and probably before that. Communication exchanges are transactions rather than combats, and identity can become more diffuse when spreading out through a web.

    Due to cultural shift, I would be interested to see where this is in 30-40 years, once we have new generations in adulthood as opposed to those raised in a very traditional setting.

    Typically females have given/adjusted to others as part of the negotiation, putting themselves as risk. Women who feel too at risk will shut the "dangerous" people out or succumb.

    Thought it was funny when I went to therapy, part of my issue was learning to develop healthy ego boundaries; I ended up giving too much to make things work and losing my sense of self in the process.
    i think part of it is just that Fe wins out the numbers game politically in the female gender game.

    but i also think boundary issues are also a product of being connected to one's own body. almost all e5s have major boundary issues as well. you know, those paper thin walls many e5s itps have? that e5 istp co-worker who just fucking LOSES it sometimes with such little provocation? emotionally and in terms of feeling one's own sense of power, instinctiveness, in a clear, smooth, practiced way (rather than flowing into a rage because one identifies with the other's power, the other's body, more than with one's own). oh so anal retentive.

    i think we also give up too much for different reasons. for e5s, we're often just afraid of losing what we have. we're afraid of almost everything. don't move, don't make a sound. don't even breathe.

  10. #20
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i'll be honest and say i don't feel the same thing. i'm learning yoga right now, but i still fucking hate actually DOING it. Se still feels stressful to me. it seems so fundamentally difficult to motivate. whereas i can read about it, consume it intellectually, draw mind maps about it, create new flavors of jelly bean out of it, etc. for fucking lifetimes.
    Interesting! Perhaps the movement element was more something I picked up on earlier in life, thus I have less stress? (I had ballet training for years when younger, and also stepped into my interest in the outdoors at that time). However, more 'raw' in-the-moment reactions, and being in new places (i.e. new cities, new unknowns, etc), and being more able to deal, and less purely stressed/paranoid, has taken time and didn't begin until my early 20's. Admittedly, I started forcing myself out of my physical comfort zone earlier on... facing the stress. So that I'm more generally able to deal now, even though I imagine I always have a rippling undercurrent of anxiety on some level. I just keep it in check or it's so engrained in me at this point that I don't pay it much heed? Dunno.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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