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  1. #41
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Both extraverted perception types deal with emergent data, but what I see is that Ne users are always wanting of more data, more possibility, more options, more tweaking, more discussion, more sides to the story. I guess depending on Ti or Fi, it'd be to build some ideal congruent to "self" or just for the sake of a more complete, mapped out proposal. They don't act as quickly as Se. How that transfers to "hunting", I don't know. Acting quickly is necessary. I'm sure they'd be fine, if someone pushed them a little.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Im referring to this:

    "Although this(introverted) intuition may receive its impetus from outer objects, it is never arrested by the external possibilities, but stays with that factor which the outer object releases within."

    "Not the strongest sensation, in the physiological sense, obtains the crucial value, but any sensation whatsoever whose value happens to become considerably enhanced by reason of the (extraverted)intuitive's unconscious attitude.

    Just as extraverted sensation strives to reach the highest pitch of actuality, because only thus can the appearance of a complete life be created, so (extraverted)intuition tries to encompass the greatest possibilities, since only through the awareness of possibilities is intuition fully satisfied. Intuition seeks to discover possibilities in the objective situation"

    -Jung

    and i dont understand why you would think im referring to things like 'can i jump over that puddle without wetting my feet'..
    Ok I'll be honest, I find it hard to make sense of Jung in his own words. I mainly go by other people's explanations of what he is saying. those things you posted, are hard for me to process.

    I can read Freud, Lacan, Zizek, and many pretty "out there" theoreticians, with no problem. But Jung's style is often very vague to me. Not abstract. Vague. Is different.

    So instead of telling me what you are not talking about, give me a concrete example of what you are talking about, as it applies to the scenario I suggested.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Acting quickly is necessary. I'm sure they'd be fine, if someone pushed them a little.
    Story of my life man. I do fine as long as I have a boot up my ass to keep me on track.

    Maybe this is why so many INTP's online seem to be serving/ex military.

  4. #44
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I think they were just high on the volcanic fissures in the area.
    Yeah probably haha. I like to imagine perhaps some legends of mystics and so forth were just exaggerations of people with a "grand vision" and so forth.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  5. #45
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    So my point is, 1.) does iNtution in the sense of ABSTRACT THINKING only emerge in relatively wealthy comfortable surrounding?
    You might be on to something here. I believe upbringing plays a very strong role in cognitive function development.

    Leave a baby to be raised in a society where questioning the status quo leads to horrific deaths, and it'll likely end up with a strong Si usage.

    Leave a baby to be raised by wolves and its Se usage will end up absurdly high.

    And 2.) Does this mean that N's just don't exist in barbaric times/countries, or that they do exist, but are just seen as dopey/slow.
    Chances are everyone would be far less intuitive in comparison.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #46
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Doubtful. Unless they had minions to command. INTJs almost certainly invented hierarchical society.
    What about ENTJ's, (I am bizniz man),?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Glossing over for a moment your potentially inflammatory ideas about what constitutes a "barbaric" society... I think we have all the evidence we need to answer this question purely based on the distribution of type today. Clearly, through much of human history favouring Sensing has been advantageous to survival and breeding success. But since intuition is wired into the human neocortex (our brains have not changed significantly since the Pleistocene) it's nonsensical to suggest it wouldn't appear at all.
    Intuition is principally about predictive intelligence, spotting patterns, predicting outcomes, linking ideas. So clearly it offers advantages when it comes to strategising, categorising, tool invention etc. I.e. those things which enhance the success of the species or the group, sometimes over that of the individual.
    I agree with this (including the part about "barbarism" being a dubious word here).

    I mean, culture has existed alongside man ever since their conception as a social animal, and culture is rife with symbolism. Remember the Lascaux caves?
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I mean, culture has existed alongside man ever since their conception as a social animal, and culture is rife with symbolism. Remember the Lascaux caves?
    Ok, 2 things.

    First, culture is not necessarilly an expression of N.

    Here we have "popular culture and type", meaning many artists are considered SP's and SJ's.

    If your symbolism is a product of abstract thinking, it's N-, if it's a product of concrete thinking,it's S-. The end result is not prima facie evidence of the thought process which motivated it.

    My question is, what kind of framework did/do people in such situations, have to develop abstract thinking, when all their existence is so firmly rooted to the natural world, and they are illiterate, have no education, etc.

    Second, let's assume that a given cave painting is a product of N-.

    This does not imply the person who did it was an N-dom. My question, how could they survive as one, in such a world? they couldn't live from cave painting.

    Even imaginign an aristocracy in such societies, which could devote its time to spiritualism/star-gazing/cave painting - we are still talking abou 1% of the population. what did the others do, who wouldn't be born to such a priveliged position?

  9. #49
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Intuition is adaptive in an evolutionary sense. The modern version where you sit around thinking airy thoughts isn't. But the cognitive version is, or it is so long as consciousness is, because intuition and sensing work together in a dynamic opposition that makes consciousness possible.

    "We uze all ur funzionz" actually makes sense that way.

  10. #50
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    /Fe
    Oh please. It's Ti. I wasn't offended by your tactlessness, just your poor use of vocab.:P

    Inflammatory =/= undesirable.
    Sure. If your intention is to troll. Otherwise, it detracts from your question. As such, a sincere poster would find it undesirable.

    I said, how would iNtutivies - i.e. dom or aux - develop, if at all.
    As I have already said, Intuition obviously developed because it was advantageous to survival. Evolution doesn't squander resources developing traits which remain dormant. Lateral thinking is useful in a wide range of situations. Man is, has always been, a social animal, and almost uniquely, one who employs division of labour to great advantage. It's not difficult to imagine individuals with great story-telling ability, spirituality, foresight, etc, finding and exploiting a niche, even if they are not the best hunters or gatherers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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