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  1. #11
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    This is a wonderful post! I enjoyed reading it so much, I had to reply and say this is the post I have enjoyed THE MOST in this thread and in general.

    Please tell me more how you saw the situation. I'm not sure I really understand some of the implications. I would love to hear more!

    Keep writing. It's like you touched on some really deep stuff here
    Well thank you!!

    I think that to me, I think of each person's responsibility being to take care of themself and their own actions, speech, and behavior, but I'm not very well-attuned to gauging how other people would feel about things. When my little brother struck up a conversation about smoking, which is illegal where we live and not explicitly approved of by our parents, I responded, but I didn't really think about who might be around to hear. He started the conversation, and he's the one committing the "bad" deed. I don't see it as my responsibility to protect him from any fallout from either of those things (though I would like to help him, since he's my brother). Still - not something I have a moral obligation to do.

    He, on the other hand, was infuriated that I wasn't keeping an eye out for him. He thought I was deliberately messing him up, being stupid, and being careless. IMO, if he was concerned about people hearing, he shouldn't have started the conversation in the first place. But to him, I think he assumes that it's part of interaction that you attend to who's around and adjust your volume level accordingly. He sees that as a moral obligation, while I don't. In contrast, he has no problem mocking my character, which I see as a "serious" insult, while he sees it as an insignificant one.

    So I think Fi puts more value and more weight on judgment of the self and personal freedom - one's character is to be measured. Fe seems to put more value and more weight on judgment of action and interpersonal cause and effect - one's behavior is to be measured. For Fi dom/aux and Fe inf interacting, this can mean that the IxTP accidentally insults the FP's character while the FP accidentally makes the IxTP feel exposed. Many F rules are "unwritten" but we hold transgressions against each other because we think they indicate intention to harm.

  2. #12
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Inferior Fe is like MUNGO HEARD YOU LIKE FLOWERS, SO PULLED UP WHOLE CHERRY BLOSSOM TREE.

    Inferior Fi is like you know when the sun's behind clouds, and you can hear the glittering points across a perigean starfield resonating with WHN's broadcasts of Alan King? That's how I feel right now.

  3. #13
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Inferior Fe is like MUNGO HEARD YOU LIKE FLOWERS, SO PULLED UP WHOLE CHERRY BLOSSOM TREE.

    Inferior Fi is like you know when the sun's behind clouds, and you can hear the glittering points across a perigean starfield resonating with WHN's broadcasts of Alan King? That's how I feel right now.
    Haha. By this I should be ENTJ.

  4. #14
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Inferior Fe is like MUNGO HEARD YOU LIKE FLOWERS, SO PULLED UP WHOLE CHERRY BLOSSOM TREE.
    Guilty.

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    @skylights I'm bouncing off of what you said,

    We are all responsible for making ourselves happy, and we owe ourselves that, and I'm giving you so much room to do what you need to do to be happy, why are you now mad at me for making yourself miserable?

  6. #16
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    So I think Fi puts more value and more weight on judgment of the self and personal freedom - one's character is to be measured. Fe seems to put more value and more weight on judgment of action and interpersonal cause and effect - one's behavior is to be measured. For Fi dom/aux and Fe inf interacting, this can mean that the IxTP accidentally insults the FP's character while the FP accidentally makes the IxTP feel exposed. Many F rules are "unwritten" but we hold transgressions against each other because we think they indicate intention to harm.
    I think this is true. Although sources have mentioned Fe putting a lot of emphasis on character, but I think as a reflection of behavior. And inf. Fe attacks character under stress. I suppose inf. Fi would do it, but would have a different flavor. I think Fe focuses on standards and accepted behavior, and judges character accordingly. In my experience Fe dom can be very critical of character.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    I'm guessing that inferior Fe externalizes the feelings more when hurt. The inferior Fe is more likely to cry, yell, and scream at others or do physical things to vent anger like slam doors. The inferior Fi ruminates more on the inside about how they were hurt and how no one understands them and how worthless they are.
    Not quite. Externalization doesn't mean to openly express feelings generally speaking, but that they extrovert their feelings on say, other people.

    As a general point not directed at anyone, a simple scenario to exemplify Fe and Fi would be that we have person A who is married to person B but decides to suddenly break up with person B. Person C is friends with person A and B, and reacts differently depending on whether C is an Fe or Fi valuing type. If C is an Fe type, the argumentation will look something like this:

    A: I am going to break up with B. I don't like being in this marraige anymore.
    C: Why? Did you ever think of what B is feeling? What about the children? What do you think they will feel when you tell them?

    If C is an Fi type, the reaction will be very different:

    A: A: I am going to break up with B. I don't like being in this marraige anymore.
    C: Why? I don't think you should break up with B. You're married with children, who is going to take care of them if you break up?

    Understand the differences in the reasoning process even though they arrive at exactly the same conclusion. In scenario Fe, we see how the feeling is extroverted because the evaluative process includes that of other people, how the husband and the children will feel. In scenario Fi, we see how the opposite occurs and how the ethical logic is based on personal feeling of what the person thinks is right than whether something is right according to others.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  8. #18
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Not quite. Externalization doesn't mean to openly express feelings generally speaking, but that they extrovert their feelings on say, other people.

    As a general point not directed at anyone, a simple scenario to exemplify Fe and Fi would be that we have person A who is married to person B but decides to suddenly break up with person B. Person C is friends with person A and B, and reacts differently depending on whether C is an Fe or Fi valuing type. If C is an Fe type, the argumentation will look something like this:

    A: I am going to break up with B. I don't like being in this marraige anymore.
    C: Why? Did you ever think of what B is feeling? What about the children? What do you think they will feel when you tell them?

    If C is an Fi type, the reaction will be very different:

    A: A: I am going to break up with B. I don't like being in this marraige anymore.
    C: Why? I don't think you should break up with B. You're married with children, who is going to take care of them if you break up?

    Understand the differences in the reasoning process even though they arrive at exactly the same conclusion. In scenario Fe, we see how the feeling is extroverted because the evaluative process includes that of other people, how the husband and the children will feel. In scenario Fi, we see how the opposite occurs and how the ethical logic is based on personal feeling of what the person thinks is right than whether something is right according to others.
    I can see some people not even reacting with those; I for example would just say "Ok" and then find out whether they were a good match, and if they weren't, let them work out who was going to take care of the children. I kind of see what you are saying though. I probably would have said that Fe would be concerned for the welfare of the children and Fi would just focus on how A and B were feeling, or just on how A is feeling. Which would make me Fi, but whatever.

    I was really asking though about the difference between Fi (dom/aux) and inferior Fe, as in, if you have a response which seems to fit Fe as an inferior function, but that could also sort of look like Fi dom/aux how you would tell the difference.

    I'm not exactly sure what your point in the other thread was about, so I'm going to request you explain it a bit more here if you don't mind; unless you already did in your previous post.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I can see some people not even reacting with those; I for example would just say "Ok" and then find out whether they were a good match, and if they weren't, let them work out who was going to take care of the children. I kind of see what you are saying though.
    If you are concerned finding out whether they are a good fit it's probably indicative of extroverted feeling because you do not operate on whether you think they are a good fit but you are trying to see it from their feeling perspective in order to evaluate the situation properly. Of course, it doesn't have to be this simple as it depends on why you'd be interested to know whether they are a good fit, but as a whole, it seems more Fe than Fi.
    I probably would have said that Fe would be concerned for the welfare of the children and Fi would just focus on how A and B were feeling, or just on how A is feeling. Which would make me Fi, but whatever.
    Then you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Fe is about understanding the feelings of others and judging those feelings based on objectively agreed standards whether they are good or bad and act on that. Fi does not do this because Fi is introverted. Fi and Fe can externally look similar or achieve the same results but Fi types don't care about what you are feeling as a person as much as they care about what they are feeling themselves:


    I was really asking though about the difference between Fi (dom/aux) and inferior Fe, as in, if you have a response which seems to fit Fe as an inferior function, but that could also sort of look like Fi dom/aux how you would tell the difference.
    No, this logic is not correct. I do not believe that functions can merge and look like another function. That just simply shows poor understanding of the functions and identifying them as such.

    I'm not exactly sure what your point in the other thread was about, so I'm going to request you explain it a bit more here if you don't mind; unless you already did in your previous post.
    I am not sure what you mean by a "point". Your information was incorrect and the way you presented the information seemed to support a certain bias of how you see yourself which is not necessarily correct either.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  10. #20
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    If you are concerned finding out whether they are a good fit it's probably indicative of extroverted feeling because you do not operate on whether you think they are a good fit but you are trying to see it from their feeling perspective in order to evaluate the situation properly. Of course, it doesn't have to be this simple as it depends on why you'd be interested to know whether they are a good fit, but as a whole, it seems more Fe than Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Then you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Fe is about understanding the feelings of others and judging those feelings based on objectively agreed standards whether they are good or bad and act on that. Fi does not do this because Fi is introverted. Fi and Fe can externally look similar or achieve the same results but Fi types don't care about what you are feeling as a person as much as they care about what they are feeling themselves:
    I would agree with this. Yeah, I saw that video. It was helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    No, this logic is not correct. I do not believe that functions can merge and look like another function. That just simply shows poor understanding of the functions and identifying them as such.
    I am not sure what you mean by a "point". Your information was incorrect and the way you presented the information seemed to support a certain bias of how you see yourself which is not necessarily correct either.
    I wasn't implying that the functions merge and look like others. I meant that they can appear similar, and so it might be hard to identify them. I think there is a disconnect between how we are thinking. You are using Te to try to provide facts, and I am describing phenomena and trying to figure out how it works.

    And I don't think there is only one correct interpretation of information, or way to understand typology.

    Also I don't know what this bias of how I see myself is, so if you are going to point it out, it would be helpful to specify what it is; otherwise all I understand is you saying I'm biased. And as I can't verify it, I can either just decide you're wrong or worry, which is not helpful.

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