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  1. #1
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Default Is Introverted Thinking a double edged sword?

    I ask this question because after spending time on here around Ti users who are either primary or secondary, (ENTP/INTP/ISTP/ESTP), there seems to be an element of...frustration that appears to stem from understanding what could be called an evidential truth through the logic of Ti, but which others often miss.

    I'm not sure, this is obviously just an observation skewed by my view on this, but I would like to hear from the types I mentioned and even others on this subject.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #2
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    All I know is that Ti is uber-obsessed with logic and reason, foolishly ignoring the profound inspirations that spring from the heart, and the transformations it can shower upon the world.

  3. #3
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Not sure what you mean by double-edged sword. If there are negatives, it's with people I care about (like family). It's hard to resist expressing frustration and saying "WTF?" I guess there's some part of Fe that makes me feel like shit for it afterwards. Luckily I don't have kids.

  4. #4
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Not sure what you mean by double-edged sword. If there are negatives, it's with people I care about (like family). It's hard to resist expressing frustration and saying "WTF?" I guess there's some part of Fe that makes me feel like shit for it afterwards. Luckily I don't have kids.
    Oh no I meant that the Ti user...perhaps this does stem from inferior Fe as well, experiences frustration around those without a well developed or preferred Ti since they aren't as able to see what Ti points out, even if it is, (for a given value of 'truth'), true.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Oh no I meant that the Ti user...perhaps this does stem from inferior Fe as well, experiences frustration around those without a well developed or preferred Ti since they aren't as able to see what Ti points out, even if it is, (for a given value of 'truth'), true.
    Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

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    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    If you mean double-edged in the sense of something becoming readily apparent to you, but Ti's "succinctness" has trouble walking others through it - then I have that problem too. It's nothing that can't be solved without a little patience though (patience isn't my strong suit, but I can force myself). Te types, I think, enjoy walking people through process and pointing out the "right" steps (the double edged sword there is some hover over people, play the part of the "manager").

  7. #7
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    Yes.


    I say and do things that make sense internally which simply get lost in translation between myself and those I encounter.


    I'll double over myself in hopes of clarification, not understanding it would take ten minutes of dedicated thought and three paragraphs to extract the bulk of my intent, resulting in the fragmented shards of information I do glean slicing everything in reach.


    It's perpetual, almost scientific in its habitual expression. On one hand, I'm left feeling wrong, unclean - on the other, I can see perfectly well where things went awry and it satisfies me.


    Silence is golden, and so forth.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    experiences frustration around those without a well developed or preferred Ti since they aren't as able to see what Ti points out, even if it is, (for a given value of 'truth'), true.
    Isn't this true for all the functions; that those with opposing functions/function lower in stack, might not see what they are trying to say because of differing viewpoints? Perhaps you notice it more in Ti users because lower Fe will project their lesser developed feeling side, which usually results in their frustration. I think their Fe makes them want others to understand too.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    All I know is that Ti is uber-obsessed with logic and reason, foolishly ignoring the profound inspirations that spring from the heart, and the transformations it can shower upon the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I ask this question because after spending time on here around Ti users who are either primary or secondary, (ENTP/INTP/ISTP/ESTP), there seems to be an element of...frustration that appears to stem from understanding what could be called an evidential truth through the logic of Ti, but which others often miss.

    I'm not sure, this is obviously just an observation skewed by my view on this, but I would like to hear from the types I mentioned and even others on this subject.
    Reasoning requires a basis to reason. Ti in particular tends to assume other people understand the axioms it's based on or at least will accept these axioms when presented with them. If these axioms are outright rejected, then nothing can really be communicated, as there is no agreed upon basis for communicating anymore; there is just the static two or more people create with one another. I think this causes frustration for the Ti user, whom was looking to improve or illuminate an understanding, but can't do so if others won't first accept how they are communicating. Reminds me a lot of Fi as well.

  10. #10
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    Isn't this true for all the functions; that those with opposing functions/function lower in stack, might not see what they are trying to say because of differing viewpoints? Perhaps you notice it more in Ti users because lower Fe will project their lesser developed feeling side, which usually results in their frustration. I think their Fe makes them want others to understand too.
    Yes, to an extent. But whenever I engage with strong Ti types or observe them interacting with others, at first I don't really grasp what they are on about, however after working it over in my mind I suddenly realise just how....well....right they usually are about something.

    The evidence in what they state is often right there in front of people, but has to be examined to be seen by those not that strong in Ti.

    This is hard for me to say since it sounds like i'm sucking Ti's dick, but it's a realisation ive had whenever I have been examining some of the arguments made on here. Which isn't to say they are ALWAYS right, but they very often are. Even though right is just a perspective, when backed up by evidence that anyone can see, it does lend it a convincing edge.

    Hence double edged sword, because it is both rich in logic and yet poor in recognition. Fi for example often leaves an individual feeling misunderstood, but Fi is not a function of truth except what truth can be understood as incredibly individual to that person and their values.

    It doesn't really have anything to do with the logical constructs of the human world, it's systems and it's behaviour, whereas Ti is both personal and not at the same time in this respect.

    Ni as a function can be a misunderstood series of concepts, but Ni is just raw perception of information, gestated into rather mystical visions of internal interpretation, although this is not necessarily a good thing, since Ni doms usually struggle with getting that vision back to the real world without feeling that it is being diluted.

    In any case Ni's idea of truth is that anything can potentially be true and all angles are essentially correct and incorrect at the same time. Fun to muse on, but often useless for application.

    Si is misunderstood because people assume that Si doms are trying to control the environment around them based upon external criteria, such as rules, laws and collective values. However this is actually a misrepresentation of Si as a function. This is actually the effect of an Si dominants secondary function as Si is incredibly individual in what it chooses to pick up on and take with it for an individual.

    But once again this is just stored information, it does not reveal anything other than what the individual wishes to get out of it in terms of personalised experiences they understand as being essential.

    None of these really produce the same 'truths' that Ti does on a regular basis.

    And as for those ive left out...well i didn't want to make it much longer, but Te and Fe are so strongly prevalent in most cultures that any misunderstanding of them is rather small and cliche, such as a feeling type considering a Te type to be harsh and overly critical, or a Thinking, (or Fi type ), perceives Fe as cloying and false. Se is what it is and most Se doms would probably say something to this effect.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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