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  1. #31
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Or maybe you just seemed to be demanding more objectivity of thinking than would usually be necessary for a Ti dom? I know you aren't but it was almost like it was going in the "this theory has to be quantified to the max or it is useless" direction
    There is nothing about the Ti or the Te-dom that has anything to do with the kind of methodology you prefer. The kind of methodology you prefer depends mostly on your academic experiences. Furthermore, to quantify something means to articulate it in numerical terms, I wasn't even asking for that. So if you associate quantification with Te, I wasn't engaging in Te behavior. If you associate Ti with rather arbitrary, highly subjective, non-systematic thinking, you're deeply confused about what Ti means in the Jungian sense of the word.
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  2. #32
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    There is nothing about the Ti or the Te-dom that has anything to do with the kind of methodology you prefer. The kind of methodology you prefer depends mostly on your academic experiences. Furthermore, to quantify something means to articulate it in numerical terms, I wasn't even asking for that. So if you associate quantification with Te, I wasn't engaging in Te behavior. If you associate Ti with rather arbitrary, highly subjective, non-systematic thinking, you're deeply confused about what Ti means in the Jungian sense of the word.
    Ti is subjective/personalized/whatever kind of thinking by definition of being introverted. It is turned inwards, i.e. not of the objective outward world like Te is. If you got something vastly different from this out of Psychological Types, let me know, but I don't think I'm quite as deeply confused as you suspect.

  3. #33
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Ti is subjective/personalized/whatever kind of thinking by definition of being introverted. It is turned inwards, i.e. not of the objective outward world like Te is. If you got something vastly different from this out of Psychological Types, let me know, but I don't think I'm quite as deeply confused as you suspect.
    Jung didn't define Ti as an absolutely rigid tendency towards subjectivity that makes the personal incapable of reasoning in a manner that goes contrary to the Ti instincts, it was only a cognitive tendency of temperament. You have to be very careful about what Jung meant by Ti's subjectivity and it is different from what he meant by the subjectivity of Feeling. The subjectivity of Ti stems from introversion or the fact that Ti activity is most easily prompted by the interior content of the mind as opposed to phenomena that are externally observable. Naturally, that renders the Ti type in greater affinity with qualitative reasoning we see in philosophy than with the strictly empirical and fact-oriented of laboratory experiments.

    My insistence that "face-typing" is too subjective is not something you'd strictly expect from a Te mind-set. Even by the "subjective, qualitative" standards of Ti, this line of inquiry is unacceptable because it borders on occultism. As someone who holds a degree in philosophy and spent a considerable amount of time cultivating expertise in that discipline, I can tell you with certainty, "face-typing" will not pass by standards of most philosophical communities, both contemporary and of antiquity. I don't think there even is any other serious qualitative scholarly enterprise that would take this seriously, not even the alleged "soft-sciences" such as psychology or criminology.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #34
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The subjectivity of Ti stems from introversion or the fact that Ti activity is most easily prompted by the interior content of the mind as opposed to phenomena that are externally observable. Naturally, that renders the Ti type in greater affinity with qualitative reasoning we see in philosophy than with the strictly empirical and fact-oriented of laboratory experiments.
    I suppose "qualitative reasoning" is a good analogy for Ti, but to be clear (or for my own clarity of what you think), qualitative reasoning still implies axioms are taken for granted as true in order to reason. The only way another person can understand another's Ti is if they know these personalized axioms. Do you agree there?

    My insistence that "face-typing" is too subjective is not something you'd strictly expect from a Te mind-set. Even by the "subjective, qualitative" standards of Ti, this line of inquiry is unacceptable because it borders on occultism. As someone who holds a degree in philosophy and spent a considerable amount of time cultivating expertise in that discipline, I can tell you with certainty, "face-typing" will not pass by standards of most philosophical communities, both contemporary and of antiquity. I don't think there even is any other serious qualitative scholarly enterprise that would take this seriously, not even the alleged "soft-sciences" such as psychology or criminology.
    Are you basically suggesting that all types share the same expressions and mannerisms and that face-typing then wouldn't deduce anything? I would agree with that as reasonable in refuting any knowledge it could provide, if that is true; but then one wonders "What philosophical role do expressions and mannerisms have with personality in terms of meaning?" If they do have meaning, it would imply that not all personalities share the same expressions and mannerisms and you would be making an assumption. If they don't have meaning, I'm sure anyone who isn't autistic would disagree regardless. One then also wonders is type equivalent to personality as well? From what I understand about Jung's concepts, I would say "no", as he never referred them as personalities, but psychological types or psychological orientations, as I like to call them (if that isn't too vague to suggest).

    Then face-typing might do better to present itself as its own theory of personality and leave type out of it. Perhaps it could be based on behavior and not a theory of mind as type is intended to be. Or actually, is MBTI a theory of mind or is it a theory of behavior? I suppose the answer will vary from person to person and the ones who are more familiar with Jung would understand MBTI is fundamentally different in regards to those two.

  5. #35
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    I type people through pictures, videos, on the street-walking, etc. ALL THE TIME! with 99% accuracy!

    it is so fun.

    I strongly agree that this really does work!

    I mean, obviously, you have to put in years and years of work, studying people, their mannerisms, expressions, ticks, tocks, quirks, and personalities.
    until you finally "get it"


    I have a file on my old computer (From years ago) that has every different type in it's own different folder...
    all the letters, numbers..etc (MBTI / Enneagram)....
    and in every folder there are thousands of pictures of different people of that particular type. Real/Famous/Anyone/etc


    and I'm telling you...it is CREEPY how much everyone of any identical type looks alike.
    It's SCARY...or at the very least off-putting how UN-unique we all are. physically...personality-wise...etc.

    I mean...I'm generalizing...but yeah...none of us (human beings) are special. (well, very few are, at most)

    that's the harsh reality of it. (but not harsh, once you grow a pair)

  6. #36
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    also, btw, I strongly believe that any Extraverted Sensor, who has learned and studied how to Type people, for years...

    has a distinct advantage over all other types, in typing people, quickly/rapidly/with ease.

    because we are really good at sensing! duh

    so basically, I type incredibly quickly, because I can sense minute facial expressions/tweaks/details really quickly.
    almost...picture-like.

    my eyes are like a high-end digital SLR camera.

  7. #37
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justadbag View Post
    also, btw, I strongly believe that any Extraverted Sensor, who has learned and studied how to Type people, for years...

    has a distinct advantage over all other types, in typing people, quickly/rapidly/with ease.

    because we are really good at sensing! duh

    so basically, I type incredibly quickly, because I can sense minute facial expressions/tweaks/details really quickly.
    almost...picture-like.

    my eyes are like a high-end digital SLR camera.
    That's awesome!

    I've got to have you over for dinner one day so you could see if I typed my INTJ dog correctly. I think it is 9w8, could be 8w9, it barks very loudly, is generally passive but can be very aggressive in asserting its interests when ignored. What main facial features distinguish an INTJ 8w9 dog from its 9w8 counterpart?

    My cat is 5w6 because it is very contemplative and a brooding character, but he also strikes me as a little melancholy, so maybe 5w4 or 4w5. Is there some other relevant facial feature I should look at, what's the quintessential gaze or a 5w4 cat and how is it any different from that of a 4w5?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #38
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    No one likes the idea of being able to judge people by their appearance, but subconsciously we do it all the time. It's natural.

    Not everyone is good at it, in fact some people are extraordinarily bad at it, but in general you can tell a lot from body language and minute facial expressions.

    I don't see why typology should be any different, and at least a small percentage of the population is probably able to do it. I only object when people include choices (fashion and such (I know ISTJs with piercings and colored hair)), body types (no correlation at all) and the shape of facial features (race plays a big factor here).

    I agree that you need a video though. The expressions I use for pictures almost never occur naturally, I just know they make the best of my features.

    However, I think you can tell instinctive variants from the eyes if it's not a posed/forced smile pic.
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

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