User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 38

  1. #21
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    I think there's something to it, but the correlations are subtle and likely cannot be quantified in a way for scientific study and proof. It's kind of like trying to describe how something smells to someone else: in the end, the only way for them to understand and identify the smell is to offer a sample to smell.

    I believe that's what Rasofy is doing here, with sight instead of smell, trying to help identify a "vibe" or general impression of the type based on what one senses. INTP is also correct, here, in that a lot of the "vibe" to be sensed from a type is dynamic, not static, and a photograph is thus rather limited in this regard. Where I've seen this make the most sense to me is in terms of identifying particular moves or fidgets in an NLP way as being indicative of underlying Jungian functions, that these movements are subtle enough to not be learned or inculcated by culture.

    Folk typology? Yeah, sure, that's a fair assessment, but that doesn't mean that there isn't something to be gleaned. It just means that it probably won't get very far, mostly because it takes too much real effort and resources to do it correctly in a systematically rigorous way.

    Rasofy, I totally get what you mean in terms of that vibe one gets. I sometimes see it in pictures, but I usually don't trust what I see in pictures, because it leaves out too much. In particular, I often see photos of FJ types often looking like FP types, in particular when it's a studied, purposeful expression. It's the unguarded moments that are more revealing ... or in the case of FJs, seeing the controlled expressiveness in action, which the FPs lack. (FPs go silent and still to hide their feelings, but find it difficult to express it in the controlled way that FJs typically use.)

    The real "danger" here is that on a personal, anecdotal level, it's possible to identify (vibe) to traits that only occasionally reflect the functions. For instance, a type 9 INFP is rather different from a type 4 INFP, but if you end up classifying the type 9 vibe as being part of the INFP vibe, you'll miss the type 4 INFPs. It's just as important to classify and understand the the part of the vibe you get from someone as NOT being part of their MBTI type, but are really other personality traits or cultural influences. Overall, I don't think this is a useful way to definitively type someone, but as a practiced skill, it can with other observations allow one to more quickly identify another's type (e.g., I get an Fi vibe from this person, is that backed up by my other knowledge of her? No? OK, does it match with a quiet INFJ? Yeah, that fits better, and know I have a more refined sense of the "Fi vibe" in that I will be less likely to confuse it with the quiet INFJ vibe in the future.)
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  2. #22
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I think there's something to it, but the correlations are subtle and likely cannot be quantified in a way for scientific study and proof. It's kind of like trying to describe how something smells to someone else: in the end, the only way for them to understand and identify the smell is to offer a sample to smell.

    I believe that's what Rasofy is doing here, with sight instead of smell, trying to help identify a "vibe" or general impression of the type based on what one senses. INTP is also correct, here, in that a lot of the "vibe" to be sensed from a type is dynamic, not static, and a photograph is thus rather limited in this regard. Where I've seen this make the most sense to me is in terms of identifying particular moves or fidgets in an NLP way as being indicative of underlying Jungian functions, that these movements are subtle enough to not be learned or inculcated by culture.

    Folk typology? Yeah, sure, that's a fair assessment, but that doesn't mean that there isn't something to be gleaned. It just means that it probably won't get very far, mostly because it takes too much real effort and resources to do it correctly in a systematically rigorous way.

    Rasofy, I totally get what you mean in terms of that vibe one gets. I sometimes see it in pictures, but I usually don't trust what I see in pictures, because it leaves out too much. In particular, I often see photos of FJ types often looking like FP types, in particular when it's a studied, purposeful expression. It's the unguarded moments that are more revealing ... or in the case of FJs, seeing the controlled expressiveness in action, which the FPs lack. (FPs go silent and still to hide their feelings, but find it difficult to express it in the controlled way that FJs typically use.)

    The real "danger" here is that on a personal, anecdotal level, it's possible to identify (vibe) to traits that only occasionally reflect the functions. For instance, a type 9 INFP is rather different from a type 4 INFP, but if you end up classifying the type 9 vibe as being part of the INFP vibe, you'll miss the type 4 INFPs. It's just as important to classify and understand the the part of the vibe you get from someone as NOT being part of their MBTI type, but are really other personality traits or cultural influences. Overall, I don't think this is a useful way to definitively type someone, but as a practiced skill, it can with other observations allow one to more quickly identify another's type (e.g., I get an Fi vibe from this person, is that backed up by my other knowledge of her? No? OK, does it match with a quiet INFJ? Yeah, that fits better, and know I have a more refined sense of the "Fi vibe" in that I will be less likely to confuse it with the quiet INFJ vibe in the future.)
    Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this.

    I think a lot of 'vibe' typing gone wrong is taking certain traits and attaching those to a certain type or function in error, when in reality those traits or aspects point to something different. Or, as SolitaryWalker mentions, SO much of our mannerisms are a result of nurture. I mean, ALL of the stuff that happens to us in our infancy and that we pick up? I don't understand why people don't focus on that sort of thing more. uumlau's enneagram/mbti example is also a good one.

    I also Luurve every time this topic comes up, because I @Rasofy, you may recall my being adamantly stamped with enfp after one poster viewed my video, and any logical discussion I tried to have about it, questioning the methods, was washed away because the person had already determined that 'right eye fluttering to the left' meant Ne, and so on.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    Will
    Posts
    5,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    (doing so just makes you seem like ignorant TJ).
    How the heck could SolitaryWalker (except for the critical nature) even begin in your eyes to look like a Te user!?

    I mean come on, this guy may be the most logic-obsessed person on the entire forum. That would make INTP the obvious choice, and SW could be their "face", just to make this post at least somewhat relevant to Rasofy's thread, even if the face I am mentioning lacks observable physical features we can see (but then again, just as uumlau said, pictures aren't always the best face).

  4. #24
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w3 so/sp
    Posts
    1,101

    Default

    Socionics.com does something similar. They type persons by analyzing their facial features.

    http://www.socionics.com/vi/vi.htm

  5. #25
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post

    you see, i have some support for it possibly being true with good enough typing skills, your only support for it not being true is, well you have none..
    It does not appear that you have support. Merely saying that a certain person is an ENFP just because they told you that this is their type does not make for "good typing skills". Observing superficial similarities in facial expressions between the people who say they belong to the same type does not count either.

    In general, most people who say they have "good typing skills" define a type based on certain superficial and highly subjective behavioral qualities. For instance, they'll define an INFP as someone who is hyper-sensitive, absent-minded and disorganized. So anyone who "kinda, sorta" fits that description will be assumed to have that type. Similarly, an ENFP is often assumed to be someone who is scattered, manic, histrionic and so on, hence, when someone they meet resembles all of these qualities on a superficial level, they are generally assumed to be "members" of this type. Also commonly enough, the "good typist" will start with the premise such as "my uncle is an ISFP" and he is great. So, anyone who seems to be "kinda sorta great" in a way that their uncle is, will be deemed to be ISFP. On the other hand, if you happen to assume that an ESTJ is someone who is power-hungry and anal retentive, you'll frequently ascribe these pejorative characteristics to a lot of people whom you dislike who may actually resemble that "ESTJ person" only on a very superficial level.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i have also successfully types one INFP male(previously tested and self confirmed) and INFJ female(didnt know about MBTI, but totally agreed with INFJ after i taught her more about typology) from just them saying like one sentence that didnt even point out towards their type and looking at their expressions.
    Are you listening to yourself? Are you even trying to consider possible objections to your position? Look at the facts of the scenario you've just described here. So you work with someone whom you believe to be an INFJ, this person has no idea what their type is and know little about typology. On the other hand, it seems to them that you know their type and know a great deal about typology and most of all, you suspect that they are an INFJ. If they respect you as a person and value your opinion, it is extremely likely they'll assume that their type is whatever you tell them it is. When I was a folk typologist, I've had plenty of such experiences with newcomers to this system.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    if you are not going to give things a serious contemplation, then its pretty obvious that you shouldnt be commenting on them or forming any opinions about them(doing so just makes you seem like ignorant TJ).
    As I've demonstrated here, I've given plenty of serious contemplation to your contention. Unfortunately, your definition of a TJ is just a person who is overly dismissive of good ideas, antagonistic, bossy and sometimes rigid in their thinking. Based on that definition, you'll have an easy time assuming that anyone who challenges you is a TJ. It's quite convenient too because many of the online MBTI profiles you've read about probably led you to believe that TPs are more open-minded, creative and altogether smarter than TPs (that isn't true, any experienced reader of Carl Jung knows that having a certain type does not by default make them intellectually superior to members of another type. Whether you are smarter than someone else has more to do with how committed you are to intellectual endeavors than with your type. Even the genetic elements that could account for intelligence tend to be non-typological).

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    How the heck could SolitaryWalker (except for the critical nature) even begin in your eyes to look like a Te user!?

    I mean come on, this guy may be the most logic-obsessed person on the entire forum. That would make INTP the obvious choice, and SW could be their "face", just to make this post at least somewhat relevant to Rasofy's thread, even if the face I am mentioning lacks observable physical features we can see (but then again, just as uumlau said, pictures aren't always the best face).
    As I said, he is working with the definition of a "TJ" as anyone who is "wrong and disagrees with him". It's convenient and much of it comes from online folk typology profiles that describe TJs as bossy, narrow-minded and so on.... Conveniently, his self-serving bias leads him to assume that anyone who disagrees with him is bossy and narrow-minded, that's just a basic element of the psychology of folk typology.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I think there's something to it, but the correlations are subtle and likely cannot be quantified in a way for scientific study and proof. It's kind of like trying to describe how something smells to someone else: in the end, the only way for them to understand and identify the smell is to offer a sample to smell.

    The problem with that is you'll naturally associate "good vibes" with people whom you like and "negative vibes" with people whom you dislike. If you assume that the person you like is an INFJ or some other type, you'll quickly be tempted to jump to the conclusion that another person you like is also an INFJ. Conversely, when you get the "INFJ vibe" about a person whom you dislike, you'll be inclined to suppress it because it would seem that deeming that person to be of the same type is just besmirching their honor.


    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Folk typology? Yeah, sure, that's a fair assessment, but that doesn't mean that there isn't something to be gleaned.
    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It just means that it probably won't get very far, mostly because it takes too much real effort and resources to do it correctly in a systematically rigorous way..
    In some cases, you may be able to use Rasofy's method to "type people properly", but this method is notoriously unreliable because it does not stop you from having your biases contaminate your assessment.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It just means that it probably won't get very far, mostly because it takes too much real effort and resources to do it correctly in a systematically rigorous way..
    I think we're in agreement there.


    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The real "danger" here is that on a personal, anecdotal level, it's possible to identify (vibe) to traits that only occasionally reflect the functions. For instance, a type 9 INFP is rather different from a type 4 INFP, but if you end up classifying the type 9 vibe as being part of the INFP vibe, you'll miss the type 4 INFPs.
    That's an apt observation, it shows that we can get similar vibes about who are very different. On a similar note, I've asked you to consider that we tend to subconsciously filter out vibes that we deem to be unpleasant or subversive to the beliefs that we wish to nourish.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It's just as important to classify and understand the the part of the vibe you get from someone as NOT being part of their MBTI type, but are really other personality traits or cultural influences.
    My question is, how will you go about classifying and analyzing vibes in a comprehensive and a precise manner. That would be very difficult to do when most of us even have a hard time defining that vibe because it is radically subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Overall, I don't think this is a useful way to definitively type someone, but as a practiced skill, it can with other observations allow one to more quickly identify another's type (e.g., I get an Fi vibe from this person, is that backed up by my other knowledge of her? No? OK, does it match with a quiet INFJ? Yeah, that fits better, and know I have a more refined sense of the "Fi vibe" in that I will be less likely to confuse it with the quiet INFJ vibe in the future.)
    Again, very good observation. It is possible for a person of one type to display behaviors that often resemble the behaviors that people of another type often engage in it. As a result, the two people of a different type will display the "same vibe".
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #26
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The problem with that is you'll naturally associate "good vibes" with people whom you like and "negative vibes" with people whom you dislike. If you assume that the person you like is an INFJ or some other type, you'll quickly be tempted to jump to the conclusion that another person you like is also an INFJ. Conversely, when you get the "INFJ vibe" about a person whom you dislike, you'll be inclined to suppress it because it would seem that deeming that person to be of the same type is just besmirching their honor.
    This is a fair comment, but I think I might be using a more precise understanding of "vibes" than might be apparent. There is a reason I used the analogy of "smell". It isn't a matter of "good smell" or "bad smell", but of "apple smell" vs "strawberry smell" vs "dog smell" vs "onion smell" vs "mold smell". And a matter of "dog smell" vs "wet dog smell" for that matter. There's really a lot of refinement to be achieved here. Its one weakness is that it cannot be well defined or quantified, because it's "smell."

    That's an apt observation, it shows that we can get similar vibes about who are very different. On a similar note, I've asked you to consider that we tend to subconsciously filter out vibes that we deem to be unpleasant or subversive to the beliefs that we wish to nourish.
    Yeah, but that's more like "real strawberry smell" vs "fake strawberry smell". Yeah, the smell is "the same", and the fake strawberry smell is comprised of the same esters as the real one, but if you pay attention, there is a distinct difference. As for liking or disliking, there are things in which "fake strawberry" is appropriate, and others in which "real strawberry" is appropriate. Or both. Or neither.

    What I usually find is the case when dealing with similar vibes is that it's more like having a real strawberry and a realistic but fake plastic strawberry, where you can look and instantly think "strawberry", but you don't get to touch. If you don't get to smell, you cannot tell the difference, but the moment you CAN smell, you instantly know which is real without touching either.

    There's also the case in which people of the same type actually vibe very differently. They're both dog, and they both have "dog smell", but one is "wet dog", and thus often more offensive to a lot of people than "dry dog." But it's all "dog." So you try to refine what "dog" is by observing closely and understanding both. Thus you can avoid some degree of the bias you suggest by having "vibes" for the "nice INTJ" and the "mean INTJ", the "nice INFP" and the "crazy INFP", and so on. Understanding includes understanding in terms of how each type has more mature and less mature examples. It also helps to have an awareness of other typing systems like Enneagram, so you can filter out the type 8 and type 5 haze, and find the INTJ-ness (for example) underneath both.

    My question is, how will you go about classifying and analyzing vibes in a comprehensive and a precise manner. That would be very difficult to do when most of us even have a hard time defining that vibe because it is radically subjective.
    It would have to be a personal skill, and emphasize listening and observing without imposing values (for the moment). Indeed, it is difficult to remove the subjectivity. I suspect we'd need something along the lines of Nardi's EEG research to create quantitative observations of the types, but even his methods necessarily contain subjectivity (cuz you have to assign types first!). But given any sort of truly objective typing methodology (wishful thinking), we'd be able to objectively define the "smells," at least insofar as having official examples of each type's "smell."

    Again, very good observation. It is possible for a person of one type to display behaviors that often resemble the behaviors that people of another type often engage in it. As a result, the two people of a different type will display the "same vibe".
    The trick being, it isn't really the same vibe, and you need to listen for the overtones and harmonics. Also you might only be hearing one note, and think it's a C major vibe, but no, when you hear the other notes a bit later, you realize it's a C minor chord, and a bit later you hear that it's a C minor 7th chord with passing tones of a chromatic blues melody heading towards a F minor 7th chord. You have to keep listening for it to be accurate.

    Otherwise, it's a game a "Name That Tune," and only rarely accurate.


    I'd say that typing people through pictures is kind of like saying you can name that tune in 3 notes. Maybe if there are a lot of pictures, there can be some reliability. If there is a short clip, or even better an extended interview of a few minutes, then you start getting to a reasonable level of precision (a reasonable educated guess, of course).
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #27
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,960

    Default

    I can fake a smile fine cheese

  8. #28
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,810

    Default

    Want some pictures? Ive got plenty of mug shots.

    Narcissism yknow?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #29
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I think there's something to it, but the correlations are subtle and likely cannot be quantified in a way for scientific study and proof. It's kind of like trying to describe how something smells to someone else: in the end, the only way for them to understand and identify the smell is to offer a sample to smell.
    You're probably right.

    Folk typology? Yeah, sure, that's a fair assessment, but that doesn't mean that there isn't something to be gleaned. It just means that it probably won't get very far, mostly because it takes too much real effort and resources to do it correctly in a systematically rigorous way.
    Yeah, that's the tricky part. What I believe is: there would be a certain vibe that's eventually gonna show up providing we have enough pictures to work with. But it wouldn't be a simple task, that's for sure.

    Rasofy, I totally get what you mean in terms of that vibe one gets. I sometimes see it in pictures, but I usually don't trust what I see in pictures, because it leaves out too much. In particular, I often see photos of FJ types often looking like FP types, in particular when it's a studied, purposeful expression. It's the unguarded moments that are more revealing ... or in the case of FJs, seeing the controlled expressiveness in action, which the FPs lack. (FPs go silent and still to hide their feelings, but find it difficult to express it in the controlled way that FJs typically use.)
    Yes. @bolded is probably why I found it easier to do that with INFPs.

    The real "danger" here is that on a personal, anecdotal level, it's possible to identify (vibe) to traits that only occasionally reflect the functions. For instance, a type 9 INFP is rather different from a type 4 INFP, but if you end up classifying the type 9 vibe as being part of the INFP vibe, you'll miss the type 4 INFPs.
    Yes, there would be variations. But with some effort, we might be able to come up with a ''how to detect a lawful good so/sp 1w9 ESTJ'' model or something. :P

    It's just as important to classify and understand the the part of the vibe you get from someone as NOT being part of their MBTI type, but are really other personality traits or cultural influences. Overall, I don't think this is a useful way to definitively type someone, but as a practiced skill, it can with other observations allow one to more quickly identify another's type (e.g., I get an Fi vibe from this person, is that backed up by my other knowledge of her? No? OK, does it match with a quiet INFJ? Yeah, that fits better, and know I have a more refined sense of the "Fi vibe" in that I will be less likely to confuse it with the quiet INFJ vibe in the future.)
    Well summed.
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this.

    I think a lot of 'vibe' typing gone wrong is taking certain traits and attaching those to a certain type or function in error, when in reality those traits or aspects point to something different. Or, as SolitaryWalker mentions, SO much of our mannerisms are a result of nurture. I mean, ALL of the stuff that happens to us in our infancy and that we pick up? I don't understand why people don't focus on that sort of thing more. uumlau's enneagram/mbti example is also a good one.

    I also Luurve every time this topic comes up, because I Rasofy, you may recall my being adamantly stamped with enfp after one poster viewed my video, and any logical discussion I tried to have about it, questioning the methods, was washed away because the person had already determined that 'right eye fluttering to the left' meant Ne, and so on.
    Haha, I recall that. Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    I can fake a smile fine cheese
    I concur. I think you're an ENFP though.

    --------

    Anyways, the project is shelved for now. Thank you all for the feedback.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  10. #30
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 so/sp
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    As I've demonstrated here, I've given plenty of serious contemplation to your contention. Unfortunately, your definition of a TJ is just a person who is overly dismissive of good ideas, antagonistic, bossy and sometimes rigid in their thinking. Based on that definition, you'll have an easy time assuming that anyone who challenges you is a TJ. It's quite convenient too because many of the online MBTI profiles you've read about probably led you to believe that TPs are more open-minded, creative and altogether smarter than TPs (that isn't true, any experienced reader of Carl Jung knows that having a certain type does not by default make them intellectually superior to members of another type. Whether you are smarter than someone else has more to do with how committed you are to intellectual endeavors than with your type. Even the genetic elements that could account for intelligence tend to be non-typological).
    Or maybe you just seemed to be demanding more objectivity of thinking than would usually be necessary for a Ti dom? I know you aren't but it was almost like it was going in the "this theory has to be quantified to the max or it is useless" direction

Similar Threads

  1. Test your typing skills! Type these already-typed people
    By Cenomite in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 12-25-2009, 09:43 AM
  2. How do you type people?
    By yenom in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 03-26-2009, 04:12 PM
  3. How to quickly type people in the real world.
    By Kleinheiko in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-18-2008, 04:11 AM
  4. Typing people by identifying the extravert function
    By alcea rosea in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-02-2008, 01:14 PM
  5. Biggest problems in typing - People mistyping themselves
    By alcea rosea in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-30-2007, 01:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO