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  1. #41
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Whether a person has a high IQ depends partly on their genetic dispositions and on their level of commitment to cultivating their intellectual faculties. The supposition that INFPs can't have a high IQ postulates that the INFP temperament precludes the individual from having the proper genes or displaying an adequate level of commitment to cultivation of intellectual abilities that lead to the achievement of a high IQ. Although one may argue that the tendency to be in affinity with emotions is a hindrance, it is only a slight hindrance. An emotionally-charged person is entirely capable of learning how to detach from sentiments and how to systematically build intellectual competence: being a Thinking types does not make one intelligent, it only gives one a natural tendency to detach. Hence, both Feelers and Thinkers who strive to become intelligent must systematically work on enhancing their cognitive faculties and both are very much capable of doing so. Furthermore, INFPs may have a variety of non-typological genetic dispositions that empower them to excel at abstract thinking, for example, they may be gifted with a photographic memory, exceptionally fast information processing abilities and so on.
    I have one point to disagree on: one need not necessarily be detached to be "intelligent" or have a high IQ. IQ also measures, to some extent, creativity - unless I'm mistaken, and "intelligence" is a very vague form. Beethoven was certainly passionate, but also considered intelligent.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  2. #42
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    I have one point to disagree on: one need not necessarily be detached to be "intelligent" or have a high IQ. IQ also measures, to some extent, creativity - unless I'm mistaken, and "intelligence" is a very vague form. Beethoven was certainly passionate, but also considered intelligent.
    The expert consensus on IQ holds that intelligence is comprised of the capacity to acquire knowledge, solve complex problems and to retain what was previously learned. Although some experts consider other cognitive competencies such as imagination and memory to be definitive characteristics of intelligence, they're generally deemed to be less important than the previous three.

    The contention that Beethoven was intelligent is a derivative of the Multiple Intelligence Theory which is another phenomenon altogether.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #43
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The contention that Beethoven was intelligent is a derivative of the Multiple Intelligence Theory which is another phenomenon altogether.
    It's anyhow hard to write extremely complex music without having the ability to first comprehend the theory, acquire the necessary stylistic tools, and then solve the "problem" of making it all fit together.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #44
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    Apparently Ne users can't be illogical.

    Logic fail. (...) <- I can fix one of the 'x''s in your type at this point. You're not an N.
    If anything she should have said, "you're not a Ti user" (sic)

  5. #45
    Infinite Bubble
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    I haven't been here long enough to have any specific quotes, but I have heard things such as:

    'I have a super-great memory; therefore I'm a Si user.'

    'Today the phone rang, and before I picked it up, I guessed who it was... and I was right! That means I'm Ni-dominant!

    'I'm INTP because I hate everyone.'

    'I can't use Se; I hate sports.'

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    'Today the phone rang, and before I picked it up, I guessed who it was... and I was right! That means I'm Ni-dominant!
    lol

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    I have a super-great memory; therefore I'm a Si user.''

    Functional literalism would state a developed memory would be having developed Si/Ni as well.



  8. #48
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The expert consensus on IQ holds that intelligence is comprised of the capacity to acquire knowledge, solve complex problems and to retain what was previously learned. Although some experts consider other cognitive competencies such as imagination and memory to be definitive characteristics of intelligence, they're generally deemed to be less important than the previous three.
    Yes, but imagination is needed to to acquire a priori knowledge to some extent, and certainly to solve complex problems (unless "complex" just means using a taught theory with numbers higher by a few digits, as an example).

    The contention that Beethoven was intelligent is a derivative of the Multiple Intelligence Theory which is another phenomenon altogether.
    I disagree: for Beethoven (or any other musician) to have composed music, he would have needed combinations of the aforementioned traits which comprise intelligence - otherwise we would just have noise.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  9. #49
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Don't bother^^
    He simply has no idea what he's talking about. He has no notion of what kind of 'thinking' (or 'feeling') is necessary for music composition, especially at the level of genius like Beethoven, Mozart, et alii. Intuitive processes are often disturbing to the rationalist mindset; hence the overreliance on IQ, 'cognitive processes', etc, and the idea that this viewpoint is superior by nature…

  10. #50
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    Don't bother^^
    He simply has no idea what he's talking about. He has no notion of what kind of 'thinking' (or 'feeling') is necessary for music composition, especially at the level of genius like Beethoven, Mozart, et alii. Intuitive processes are often disturbing to the rationalist mindset; hence the overreliance on IQ, 'cognitive processes', etc, and the idea that this viewpoint is superior by nature…
    I find this characterization to be pejorative and thoroughly deprecatory. Aesthete's observation is worthy of serious analysis. His contention seems to be that the conventional qualities of intelligence are generally necessary in order to excel at music composition, although this is plausible, this line of inquiry is often overlooked by most experts of intelligence theories. They often seem to maintain that musical competencies are manifestations of a unique type of a cognitive ability that is largely independent of analytical reasoning, information-retention faculties or those that are needed for acquisition of new information. I know very little about what is necessary in order to excel at musical composition on the level that Beethoven excelled at it, so I won't comment on that. All I can report is the expert consensus on this subject-matter.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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