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  1. #21
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I am sorry, I am not sure what you're getting at here. Do you wish to provide a specific example how typology was abused on this site? Do you have a question regarding this topic or did you post here with the sole purpose of making a digression from our topic?
    Did the examples I provided not qualify? I saw those statements as an abuse of typology so I posted them, I thought they were relevant.

    I'll admit, however, that they don't exactly fit the templates you provided in the opening post. But i'm not sure how much leeway i'm allowed here.

    As for the digression, I don't see it.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    "Am I the only one who finds it a little ridiculous that a self-described STP is lecturing a thread full of N-dominant types on 'seeing the big picture' "
    Sublime.

  3. #23
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    People tend to define Si/Se as a lack of Ne/Ni. Many people ocnsciously or subcosnsciouly think you have to "earn" the "right" to call yourself an N by sounding pretentious/uber-quirky or describing how misunderstood/much of a misfit you are, in x% of you monthly posts. Obsession with sci-fi/comics/paganism/indie music/insert-non-mainstream cultural interest here also helps.

    Don't get me wrong I have no problem with any of those things, in fact many of them are great. It's just the way people relate them consciosuly or subconsciously to "typology". Of course there may be some correlation. But often these things are taken as a "given" of a certain type.

    Few people actually think "let's test if this person is able to quickly pick up cues from their phsical environment and interact smoothly with it in order to create a dialectic of mutual influence" or "test his ability to effortlessly notice discrepancies from large quantities of data".

    Actually I don't know if this was relevant to the OP. If so, great. If not, that sucks, move on.

  4. #24
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    so is that Ne? like a mental bouncy castle?
    /nope, possibly ADD, but not inherit to Ne.

    (this did came as a misunderstanding from me doing a bad job trying to explain it, mainly because i was tired. which brings me to the next one...).

    they don't understand me because i'm an intuitive and everyone else is a sensors
    /they don't understand you because your not doing a very good job communicating yourself or giving them enough of an incentive to make them try to understand you. also if you know 10 people, statistically there's a good chance 4 of them are intuitives, so why aren't those understanding you?

    and the endlessly repeated:
    my mom is an ISFJ because she does [insert things that come with the job of parenting]
    /your mom is more then the role she fulfills in your life.

  5. #25
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    I'd list some of my own experiences, but I wouldn't want to be accused of Fe cattiness.

    It's unfortunate because they're really good examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm going to be polite and not point out who it was who said it,
    Also, that would be a very, very long list of people.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I do recall a member recently saying that the biggest difference that there is is between S and N because Ss can't see the big picture and have no vision... I'm going to be polite and not point out who it was who said it, but I definitely remember it because I thought "here we go again!" when they said it
    I'm pretty sure it's something I would spew out but I don't spend enough time here to read through all the threads and may have an unknowing accomplice in my sensor belittlement campaign. Was it me? The prospect of 15 seconds of fame sounds enticing right about now.

  7. #27
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    I found a thread with the title "Can INFPs have high IQs?" The question is in itself stupid.

    Extract from one post: "Ne can make people very very clever."

    And an extract from a response: "As can Fi."

    And, finally, some common sense: "Any type "can" have a high IQ (though some types have higher proportions of gifted people; as noigman mentioned INFPs are actually one of these). There are gifted people of all types. If you stick around here for a while you'll see there are plenty of intelligent INFPs around (as well as other bright Fs)."
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

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  8. #28
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Did the examples I provided not qualify? I saw those statements as an abuse of typology so I posted them, I thought they were relevant.

    I'll admit, however, that they don't exactly fit the templates you provided in the opening post. But i'm not sure how much leeway i'm allowed here.

    As for the digression, I don't see it.
    I see, somehow I deemed your first post to be irrelevant. However, the examples that I now see clearly constitute abuses of typology.

    "Does Ti sieve information for it's logical accuracy and consistency?


    If accuracy is closer to truth, does that mean Ti is anti-lying?

    That seems to be a hang-up of Fe

    Although I must admit, those ESFJ's have the same chin as me"

    Good work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    /nope, possibly ADD, but not inherit to Ne.

    (this did came as a misunderstanding from me doing a bad job trying to explain it, mainly because i was tired. which brings me to the next one...).


    /they don't understand you because your not doing a very good job communicating yourself or giving them enough of an incentive to make them try to understand you. also if you know 10 people, statistically there's a good chance 4 of them are intuitives, so why aren't those understanding you?

    and the endlessly repeated:

    /your mom is more then the role she fulfills in your life.
    Good examples, thanks for providing a justification for their selection as well.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  9. #29
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    1. X does not like public display of affections, hence X is a T.
    2. X is good in social situations, must be an E.
    Good examples, they fit the basic formula "X has a certain quality and therefore he is a certain type."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    "There is not 1% sensor brain in me."
    Correct, Sensing is a cognitive disposition to perceive the external environment through our five senses with only minimal distortions from the faculties of abstract perception. All human beings rely on the cognitive faculty of Sensing, hence, the supposition that a person can be completely devoid of all sensing-related elements is palpably absurd.


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I do recall a member recently saying that the biggest difference that there is is between S and N because Ss can't see the big picture and have no vision... I'm going to be polite and not point out who it was who said it, but I definitely remember it because I thought "here we go again!" when they said it
    Also applicable, "seeing the big picture" is a skill that can only be cultivated with deliberate practice. Although the cognitive faculties of Intuitive types generally lead them to be more interested in abstract thinking, there is no guarantee that the abstract perceptions that stems from Intuition will lead to broadness of perspective and a grasp of complex theories that big-picture thinking requires. Although the temperament of Intuitives gives them a slight advantage with respect to learning the skill of abstract thinking, it is possible that many individual Sensors may have non-typological cognitive dispositions that would empower them to excel at big-picture thinking. For example, they may have a eidetic memory or an exceptional capacity to retain relevant facts.


    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Shame it's just this forum, I have a nice memory bank of such statements from Perc.

    But I suppose part of the fun is naming and shaming without the name, or at least it appears to be.

    *EDIT*

    Wait I found one from here: Besides that's a big heap of Fe.

    *Double EDIT*

    Found more!

    That seems to be a hang-up of Fe

    Although I must admit, those ESFJ's have the same chin as me

    Does Ti sieve information for it's logical accuracy and consistency?

    If so, is accuracy closer to truth?

    If accuracy is closer to truth, does that mean Ti is anti-lying?


    Ok so these are more functionally based, but I would have thought the same misconceptions apply.

    Oh last *EDIT*#

    This one JUST came up: How do you tell an ESFJ that the friendship is over without them going crazy on you?
    For obvious reasons, there is no evidence to suggest that all ESFJs will "go crazy" on YouTube. One may argue that ESFJs have a natural tendency to be in tune with their feelings and to strive to perceive the sentiments of others, but this does not automatically lead them to behave in a belligerent and a melodramatic fashion. In general, people who engage in the latter actions tend to be emotionally unhealthy, insecure and possessive of their friends and close associates. In principle, it is possible for even an Introverted type behave similarly to the way the ESFJ are believed to behave in, but they are more likely to employ other coping mechanisms because most introverted tend not to be socially flamboyant, but they can be. In general, however, deeply unhealthy, emotionally insecure and relationship-oriented people are likely to "go crazy on Youtube", but most ESFJs are not unhealthy and therefore will not behave in such a manner. An ESFJ is merely a cognitive temperament that leads individuals to be more easily energized through social interaction or vigorous activity than through solitary contemplation, to perceive the environment with greater ease through their Sensing faculties as opposed to that of abstract perceptions, to be in closer affinity with sentiments than their rational thinking faculties and to have a tendency to interact with the world in a sequential, orderly as opposed to an intuitive fashion. Let's keep in perspective the fact that all of those characteristics that I associate with ESFJ are merely tendencies, individuals are more than welcome to go against them when they deem that to be necessary. In fact, the healthiest and most well-balanced of people are often able to do exactly that.

    Ti has nothing to do with lying or accuracy. It is a cognitive tendency that leads a person to have his faculties of dispassionate contemplation to be stimulated by phenomena that can be discovered introspectively as opposed to through observation of the external world. Introverted Thinking can be used to engage external problems too, but let's not forget, this is merely cognitive tendency and nothing more and it is most easily stimulated from within as opposed to from the outside: that's the main respect in which it is contrasted with Te or Extroverted Thinking. Because Ti is most easily stimulated from within, it can be more easily divorced from external procedures, prescriptions or other external premises on which the endeavor of problem-solving is based. Whether a person excels at accurate thinking depends on how skilled he or she is at that undertaking, it is possible to be a Ti type who is a neophyte in that regard and a Te type who is a master. Whether person is opposed to prevarication or acts of deceptions generally depends on the personal values he or she espouses, at best, Ti can be used to encourage detachment from the external environment and facilitate internally inspired cognition, but that is a very far cry from the claim that Ti is to be associated with honesty or accurate thinking.




    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You'll like this old one:

    "Am I the only one who finds it a little ridiculous that a self-described STP is lecturing a thread full of N-dominant types on 'seeing the big picture' "
    Same assessment that I've provided in response to whatever's post applies for this claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    People tend to define Si/Se as a lack of Ne/Ni. Many people ocnsciously or subcosnsciouly think you have to "earn" the "right" to call yourself an N by sounding pretentious/uber-quirky or describing how misunderstood/much of a misfit you are, in x% of you monthly posts. Obsession with sci-fi/comics/paganism/indie music/insert-non-mainstream cultural interest here also helps.
    Intuition is a naturally tendency that predisposes people to be in greater affinity with abstract perception than with their information that is incepted through one of our five senses. To become an enthusiast of abstract ideas, even those that we see in comics or Sci-Fi novels, one needs to cultivate his or her faculties of abstract perception further. Sensors are capable of doing this too, hence, the position that if a person is interested in abstract perceptions, he must be intuitive, proves to be almost completely misguided. That is yet another variant of one of the 10 formulas I've listed in the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Don't get me wrong I have no problem with any of those things, in fact many of them are great. It's just the way people relate them consciosuly or subconsciously to "typology". Of course there may be some correlation. But often these things are taken as a "given" of a certain type.
    There is no magic here. The reason they relate to these ideas on the subconscious level is that they have been led to believe that Intuition is be equated with abstract perception, curiosity or even intelligence. Once this myth is dispelled, such subconscious perceptions will begin to vanish.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    /nope, possibly ADD, but not inherit to Ne.

    Extroverted Intuition is the cognitive tendency to be in affinity with the abstract faculties of perception and to have the faculties of perception most easily stimulated from the outside than from within. Naturally, the Extroverted Perceiving types have a tendency to be more focused on their external environment than the Introverted Perceiving types, but this has little to do with being scattered. Whether a person is scattered is a result of their medical conditions such as ADD, for example, or the choices that they make in their life that may lead them to be scattered. Altogether, good work, many of your explanations are quite plausible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's something I would spew out but I don't spend enough time here to read through all the threads and may have an unknowing accomplice in my sensor belittlement campaign. Was it me? The prospect of 15 seconds of fame sounds enticing right about now.
    Good, now do you understand what the fundamental differences between Sensors and Intuitives are?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    I found a thread with the title "Can INFPs have high IQs?" The question is in itself stupid.
    Whether a person has a high IQ depends partly on their genetic dispositions and on their level of commitment to cultivating their intellectual faculties. The supposition that INFPs can't have a high IQ postulates that the INFP temperament precludes the individual from having the proper genes or displaying an adequate level of commitment to cultivation of intellectual abilities that lead to the achievement of a high IQ. Although one may argue that the tendency to be in affinity with emotions is a hindrance, it is only a slight hindrance. An emotionally-charged person is entirely capable of learning how to detach from sentiments and how to systematically build intellectual competence: being a Thinking types does not make one intelligent, it only gives one a natural tendency to detach. Hence, both Feelers and Thinkers who strive to become intelligent must systematically work on enhancing their cognitive faculties and both are very much capable of doing so. Furthermore, INFPs may have a variety of non-typological genetic dispositions that empower them to excel at abstract thinking, for example, they may be gifted with a photographic memory, exceptionally fast information processing abilities and so on.




    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    "Ne can make people very very clever."
    What makes people clever is deliberate and consistent practice. Abstract Extroverted Perception only leads one to be in natural affinity with abstract perceptions and to be focused on the environment. That alone, does not lead anyone to develop any intellectual competencies. One needs to use all sorts of cognitive faculties to become clever, typological and otherwise.

    Good work, everyone. Please try to cite exact quotes of absurd statements and provide explanations for why you've selected the quotes.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Good, now do you understand what the fundamental differences between Sensors and Intuitives are?
    I understood what the difference was all along you're no teacher and I am perfectly capable of understanding definitions by myself. I wasn't even talking to you. Do I need to copy and paste the ESFJ rant thread of yours again?

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