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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Has anybody here defined what it means to "do" typology?
    bingo! that is the question:

    if functions are nothing but semantics - turn of the century neologism - then we would be making no assumptions. can you ask "is someone like this because he is a giant or is he like this because he is tall?", "are they dark haired or black haired?" <- there would be no conflict, one attribute is contained within the other, your hair isn't absorbing light because it's either black or dark, those are two descriptions using different spectrum that overlap.

    a lot of people seem to agree that it is just that - a semantic framework - and yet somehow we ask "is someone considering others doing it because they are an so dom, a strong Fe user or an e3/2"? that make sense if functions where actual features of the mind - cognitive mechanisms - but it doesn't work if we take them at face value as mere descriptions.

    so are we analyzing how someone works or are looking for the right words to describe them?

  2. #192
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    and you determine which cognitive tendencies those are by what choices they make, what they do & what they express.
    You can guess this way, but you would do better to ask why and how they arrive at the choices they make, and why they are expressing themselves in the observed manner and situations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    this actually has become a noticeable problem when you take the full spectrum of typology practiced here as a whole (which neither of them are meant for, but since we're using all of them...): MBTI, enenagram, tritype, instinctual variants.
    I'm not sure how helpful it is to mix up the typing systems this way, especially MBTI and enneagram. In my albeit limited experience, it has been more useful to use enneagram to distinguish among different expressions of a given MBTI type, than to do the reverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    a lot of people seem to agree that it is just that - a semantic framework - and yet somehow we ask "is someone considering others doing it because they are an so dom, a strong Fe user or an e3/2"? that make sense if functions where actual features of the mind - cognitive mechanisms - but it doesn't work if we take them at face value as mere descriptions.

    so are we analyzing how someone works or are looking for the right words to describe them?
    We are analyzing how someone works, and then using a well-known shorthand notation to describe them, sort of how light with wavelengths ranging from about 625-740 nm is all called "red" though it includes many shades of red, intensities, polarization states, etc.

    The better question to ask is: why is this person considering others, and their wants and needs? Answers could range from: that is how they would like to be treated; they were brought up to do so; they care about others and want them to be happy; things work more smoothly when people are considerate of each other; if they act considerately, the other people will be more willing to do them a favor later. Each motivation suggests a different type, or close cluster of types. Ask many questions of this nature, and the answers in aggregate should align with one type over the others.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #193
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Forum member's analysis of Snowden's type
    Yeah, it seems to me that when he talks he talks big, airy mechanism. In fact, his language includes a lot of accidental ambiguity--for eg. "when you talk to people about them, in a place like this where this is the normal state of business"--that arises from him knowing what he's referring to but us having to choose something before we can understand where he's gone with that. That doesn't formally rule out INTP, of course. It just makes him sound, to me, like Ni. But before I say INTJ, the lack of a high school diploma and the attempt to join special forces is throwing me. Is he really an under-educated INTJ? Or is he ISTP, because when they get going they sound weird and airy too. I don't know a reason to positively say INTP one way or another. (Except perhaps that he's too plainly scared to be INTP, whatever that means.)
    Does anybody see problems with this?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #194
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Does anybody see problems with this?
    Yes.

    "For eg." is redundant.

    If I wrote anything like that on this forum, I would pay the admin $50,000 to ban me.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #195
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Yes.

    "For eg." is redundant.

    If I wrote anything like that on this forum, I would pay the admin $50,000 to ban me.
    What about the inferences the author employs to justify his speculations concerning Snowden's type. Are you persuaded by his argument that Snowden cannot be an INTP because he looks "too scared" or because he sounds "airy"?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #196
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    What about the inferences the author employs to justify his speculations concerning Snowden's type. Are you persuaded by his argument that Snowden cannot be an INTP because he looks "too scared" or because he sounds "airy"?
    I use multiple methods for typing people, but the particular method demonstrated there is pretty much bottom of the barrel typism.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #197
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Does anybody see problems with this?
    Was the person posting drunk or sober?

  8. #198
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Was the person posting drunk or sober?
    Quite sure he was sober, he posted this shortly after he started a thread in search of Snowden's type. Sounds like jejune twaddle to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Is Snowden an INTP or INTJ?
    I tell you what. Did he have a messy desk? If he did, you can have him.
    What do we think of this groundbreaking assertion?
    Last edited by SolitaryWalker; 08-21-2013 at 06:35 AM.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  9. #199
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    What do we think of this groundbreaking assertion?
    Quote Originally Posted by B-1 deficiency
    I tell you what. Did he have a messy desk? If he did, you can have him.
    I think it's utter stupidity.

    Btw, I have a messy desk. Even my I-have-to-arrive-early-for-an-appointment father has a messy desk.

  10. #200
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    And this ENFP keeps her desk neat and tidy. It's a good cover.

    On the subject of how not to do typology, ever associating intelligence and type, including IQ, which tests for whatever the current committee behind the IQ test decides "determines intelligence", not actual ability or potential.

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