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  1. #11
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    This reminded me of the King of the Mountain phenomenon; attributed in the wiki as both Te and Fe-dom (as inferior Ti):
    In the King-on-the-Mountain style of conversation, one person (the King) makes a provocative statement, and requires that others refute it or admit to being wrong. The King is the judge of whether any attempted refutation is successful.
    Tangentially--yeah, screw that noise. If someone thinks that they're right and are not open to be proven otherwise, and especially if they hold no real position in your life, then.. screw it, let 'em be right in their own minds; their delusions will probably bite them in the ass eventually.

    And upon typing that out, I wonder whether it's an example of a statement that seems overly authoritative.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    And upon typing that out, I wonder whether it's an example of a statement that seems overly authoritative.
    Yes, I'm tempted to try to push you off the mountain.

    My alternate strategy (the sneaky one) is to simply firehose the mountain until it collapses.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    This reminded me of the King of the Mountain phenomenon; attributed in the wiki as both Te and Fe-dom (as inferior Ti):


    Tangentially--yeah, screw that noise. If someone thinks that they're right and are not open to be proven otherwise, and especially if they hold no real position in your life, then.. screw it, let 'em be right in their own minds; their delusions will probably bite them in the ass eventually.

    And upon typing that out, I wonder whether it's an example of a statement that seems overly authoritative.
    This reminds me of my extended family (1 ESFJ and 4 ETJs, and then my ESFJ father who just detaches from it) whenever a reunion is being planned... it's like an all-out war to even decide where and how to get a freaking cake...lol

  4. #14
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    The flipside of this is Ji users feel like they're right, too, we're just sneakier about it.

  5. #15
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Questions to Consider:

    How does being Je last impact your life? n/a
    How does it manifest in your personal relationships? n/a
    How did/does it affect your choice of career or career development? n/a
    How do you feel interacting with Je firsts? I find sensors can be abusively pushy&shortsighted and draining to interact with, I usually get along intuitive Thinkers as they can better grasp my different perspectives and complement my thinking style. Feelers can be a bit obnoxious or overly controlling.
    How do you feel interacting with Je lasts? I find they can be impatient or otherwise illogically pushy "just because" they feel an itch to take action/see things done they can't quite grasp how to direct.
    What do you think of Je firsts and auxs? Do they provide clarity? Do they make everything a smokescreen? I'd say clarity can be a plus, but my experience with N vs S varies largely. Te intuitives can streamline my endless supply of options and keep a direction I can build upon, while for Te sensors I need to do more leg work to speak their language to actually get a message across. My experience with Feelers is also skewed, as I am generally averse to overbearing politeness/invasion of my privacy, but if they can respect that, then it's a good sail.
    Were you parented by Je doms or auxs? How did that affect you? Possibly Fe dom mother, read above @ privacy & overbearing protocol.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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  6. #16
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    My type currently says iNfj, but as it is uncertain and it is highly probable I am INXP (probably T) I will speak from both the perspectives of inferior Fe and Te as they apply.

    How does being Je last impact your life?
    I kind of suck at Te, so I'll think of a theoretical plan to make things happen, and neglect to include important intermediate steps. And then I get distracted. But if I can incorporate things into a doable routine, or the project is small enough I can finish it in one inspired stretch, I can do it. I can accomplish long term goals if it's something important enough and long range enough that I can keep coming back to it with fresh enthusiasm and ideas. I'm best at accomplishing intellectual tasks, as I can refine things in my mind for a really long time, and once things click all I have to do is write it all down.

    Fe: I'm kind of a judgmental person feeling wise, but I have to continually fight it. I don't want to be bigoted or hateful, or hypocritical and have it come back and bite me in the butt (judging other people for things I do). But when this does happen I gain a broader perspective because I'm forced to. I also strive for objectivity, and so I realize that all feeling judgments are essentially subjective. I also haven't been the greatest at recognizing and adhering to proper social behavior. I've done a lot of learning in this area. I don't want to just conform for its own sake, but I want to understand why people do things and why doing them is advantageous. Once I see it I'm happy to act normal.

    How does it manifest in your personal relationships?
    I don't see Te applying. I can see the descriptions of inferior Fe applying. I am very sensitive to approval and rejection in relationships, and if I perceive either I generalize it to be indicative of some truth about myself. I have to continually fight the tendency to assume negative meaning from puzzling behavior (so and so didn't return my call, therefore he doesn't like me anymore). Usually these assumptions turn out to be incorrect.
    How did/does it affect your choice of career or career development?
    Negatively. I grew up with the belief that what I wanted didn't really matter and wouldn't make me money, so I didn't pursue what really made me happy until a year ago. I tried several times to strike a balance between something I thought I'd like well enough and something sensible, and each time found major problems with it. I finally decided on philosophy. And I will make it work because I am a philosopher by nature and can't be anything else.
    How do you feel interacting with Je firsts?
    I have limited experience with them, and the Fe first was a very unhealthy ENFJ, so my perspective on it could be skewed. However, the traits she exhibited infuriated me to no end. She was really judgmental and pushy and emotionally manipulative. When she approved of me I felt really great, but when she disapproved
    I felt like I was being chastised and shunned by an entire village in front of the gods.

    Te first: I dated a (probably) ENTJ and am seeing (probably) another. They sometimes annoy me with being so sure of themselves, like they think they know twice as much as I do. But they are a wonderful change from the ENFJ mentor. They actually don't judge me, even though I expect them to. They are capable of objective analysis and dialogue. Even though I feel a bit inferior because they are so much more productive than I am, I realize that that's my own issue, and they often help me become more productive. So all in all I like them.
    How do you feel interacting with Je lasts?
    We can have a lot of silly fun. They're pretty laid back, which I like. Good conversationalists. Pretty nonjudgmental. The IFP's offer interesting perspectives, and the ITP's have stimulating ideas. I haven't had a bad experience yet with an ITP (other than a couple on here), but two inferior Te's I am close with can be dreadfully moody and spiteful. I don't see the point of being so emotional about things; it wastes energy. And being spiteful and hateful doesn't solve problems and just makes people agitated. Also their judgments can seem arbitrary.
    What do you think of Je firsts and auxs? Do they provide clarity? Do they make everything a smokescreen?
    Both and either, depending on whether they are healthy and developed. Fe can help me feel good about myself and get along with other people, but also be manipulative. Te can help me be productive and assertive, but also a bit arrogant. I think I'm better equipped to deal with ETJ's currently; I'm less susceptible to their methods of control. Also my best girl friend is ESTJ, and I don't find her controlling or bossy at all (so I forgot about her). We get along great. If she tells me I need to do something I realize she is right and thank her for reminding me. (She's married to the ISTP and kicks his butt when he's lazy.)
    Were you parented by Je doms or auxs? How did that affect you?
    ISTJ and ISFJ probably. Neither really understood me, and both were very judgmental. So of course I internalized it and thought there was something fundamentally wrong with me (Te) and would never be able to survive in the world because terrible things would happen no matter what I did (inferior Ne). I felt the same way as my mom about ethical things, so I internalized a lot of my mom's (extremely biased) beliefs. Unlearning all of this has been a challenge.

  7. #17
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    This reminded me of the King of the Mountain phenomenon; attributed in the wiki as both Te and Fe-dom (as inferior Ti):


    Tangentially--yeah, screw that noise. If someone thinks that they're right and are not open to be proven otherwise, and especially if they hold no real position in your life, then.. screw it, let 'em be right in their own minds; their delusions will probably bite them in the ass eventually.

    And upon typing that out, I wonder whether it's an example of a statement that seems overly authoritative.
    I don't get that sense of conflict from Fe types.. Sometimes it's annoying, because I don't want to invest any time to the same things, but sometimes I'll defer to their wisdom for the very same reason. I'll conflict with Te more often. There's overlap and competition there. If they are "kings", it's vicariously.. the real king to them is whatever construct they've adopted for themselves. They find a strong position or can be very informative within the confines of their little model of reality, and might intimidate some people with it. But the Ti doms are the first to ignore it. Reality is about whatever works, the results. Not some particular process. So there can be conflicts on this front).

  8. #18
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    I noticed with a lot of FP's I know, that they get unconscious or semi-conscious Te "pressure" very easily, and feel it as an external "pressure" when in fact it's their own imgaination.

    Like my ex gf, all the time would be like "XYZ person wants me to do ABC, no I have to do it NOW, no I have to do it THIS WAY" - basically freakin the fuck out.

    Then I would look at the message, or talk to the person myself, and it would be just a chilled out reasonable request, and it wasn't necessarry to freak out, we could have just had an interaction with that person, and come to a mutual understanding of how to get the job done.

    But I guess it's the same with any inferior function that we don't develop: people feel it as an unbearable external pressure rather than taking control of it and dominating it step by step. I used to be the same with Fe, but then I learnt to recognize it.

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