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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Eloquent post, thank you. What I'm wondering is if this systematic, controlled, deliberate and purposeful use of emotion- and value-based data is really that different from thinking. What distinguishes it from thinking? The subject matter of such process is feeling. But, if I think about playing basketball, have I *played* basketball or *thought* of it?

    Feeling plays a lowly role in my thought experiment. But.. what kind of feeling-based rational processes are possible? T->F->T->F processes might be driven by thinking, or just as well by feeling. What would a T-driven process look like? Probably something like this:
    "I need to do some chores today. I'm kind of tired so I'd rather pick some easier chores. On the other hand, I'll feel really lousy when my teammembers ask me what I've done over the weekend and I'll have to tell them I've done nothing. I'll better write some kind of report and appear productive. Most of the teammembers will need just a report at this point of the task anyway."
    If the use of T and F alternate and share equal weight, it might be hard to tell which cognitive process drives which. But.. somehow, I don't associate feeling with structure. I also don't see how a structured thought process involving feeling could have it's structure derived from feeling as well.

    Can a mental process with structure derived from thinking and content derived from feeling really be called feeling?

    Maybe I've been influenced by systems thinking to see it this way.
    Feeling is not emotion based, neither its a value based, it judges value/worth of things by rational process, like i explained earlier..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #12
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I checked some of that Nardi's neuroscience stuff. This is from another thread:

    Extraverted Thinking (Te)

    Te types:

    Show most efficient use of mental energy as they rely on evidence-based decision-making.
    Rely on T3, O1, C3 and Fp1. Tend to use other areas very little, even on tasks that would normally invoke them.
    Rely on measurably sensory information
    Focus on goals and stimulated by task completion and error correction.
    Tend to move to action before accurate or what-if processing, so quick efficiency can become a pitfall.
    Show high activity in F8, which handles deeply felt personal values, often expressed negatively.
    Female Te types show more diverse brain activity and are more responsive to social feedback.
    If this is true, it might explain some of my view. I feel some things deeply and I know I feel them, but I don't usually express them publicly. Other times when I handle feeling, I might rather "know" feeling than to "feel" something through. If as a heavy user of Te I'm efficient at coming to conclusions but don't give a "full run" of feelings for every issue, I might see it from a different perspective.

    BUT: however un-representative of the whole population my views might be, dual process theory/system thinking still categorizes feelings as involuntary reactions.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    -His words spoke one thing and his expression spoke another. His words made a perfectly logical explanation. I didn't believe it, for his face told another story.
    Most communication is non-verbal, and it's easier to lie with your words than with expression or body language.

    People can learn to contorl expressions and body language, but there are some things very hard to suppress. Like the little tongue poke at the corner of the mouth to signify rejection or discomfort - even the best "actors" give that one away and it's a good sign something is wrong.

    Like others said, I think what you described is intuition, not feeling. People don't necessarilly notice the details of those signs, but they do notice the overall vibe.

    Is it any more rational to choose to make a difficult decision about a person place based on incomplete information than on a "vibe"? Depends on the situation I guess. The less reliable info you have, the more rational it is to go by your vibe.

  4. #14
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    I wish I trusted my feelings more.

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