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  1. #31
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I actually wonder if there's not some kind of FP correlate to this, in that P is more short-term focused and Fi and Ti are more "timeless" in nature than Fe and Te, and therefore subjective validation and adhering to what "should" be is more important than objective influence and immediate delivery of results. Combine that with the exploratory, holistic nature of Se and Ne, and you wind up with Ps being much more likely to behave spontaneously.
    I think there is a lot in common, but also, I think someone like Coriolis provides good advice for someone like you specifically (EFP, a Te aspirant). So while we can share things in common, a better advisor for how you develop T are the TJs. Fe is the thing that guilts me more into not being myself. Heh.

  2. #32
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I think there is a lot in common, but also, I think someone like Coriolis provides good advice for someone like you specifically (EFP, a Te aspirant). So while we can share things in common, a better friend for how you develop T are the TJs. Fe is the thing that guilts me more into not being myself. Heh.


    Er, well, thank you for the advice, but I wasn't really talking about developing anything, just theorizing on why P is as P is.

  3. #33
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post


    Er, well, thank you for the advice, but I wasn't really talking about developing anything, just theorizing on why P is as P is.
    Oh, I wasn't giving advice. Just kind of...building on the theme. Or something. I don't know. It's late.

  4. #34
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Oh, I wasn't giving advice. Just kind of...building on the theme. Or something. I don't know. It's late.


    I feel like I should be sleeping right now! Too bad my mood is very awake...

  5. #35
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I always go by my gut feelings. The moment I start to think about a decision first, I end up questioning it for the rest of my life
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #36
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    If you're a feeler and chose the 'feeler way', but still it turned out you were 'wrong' or think you could have had better results if you approached differently. At least you have been true to yourself and were able to learn from it. For a feeler it would still be much better than trying to ignore those feelings and attempt to go with a 'rational' approach, which is likely to cause a much bigger fallout.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #37
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I would chalk up a lot of the "in the moment" stuff to Se actually. The thrill of action, performance, the thrill of experiencing the pieces fall together in place, in real time. That puts a smile on any SP's face (in the same way that the thrill of discovery would for Ne). It's not emotion in the F sense though. It's something visceral.
    I agree on the role of Se here, and that emotion in this sense is not F. F is a judgment process, whether Fi or Fe, while emotion is an input that is often very sensory in nature, and obvioiusly in the moment. I had the impression, though, that most emotion is essentially visceral in nature, or at least in how we perceive it. Is that incorrect, or at least not usual?

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    But either way, STPs will take risks. You can put them in the same box as TJs, thinking things through the way they do. Just the thought is uncomfortable, if you ask me. I hate to put it this way, but Te is usually pretty square. TP is willing to fuck around a bit more and not worry about the long term.. to them, it's not going to be boring at least.
    I'm not sure I understand the highlighted. Are you suggesting SPs and TJs follow the same thinking process in making decisions? I would not expect much similarity, given the opposite function orientations and different function orders, though each does seem to be action-oriented in their own way. Yes, Te on its own seems pretty square, as you call it. It never is on its own, however, and coupled with Ni, as in NTJs, can be used to drive some rather unconventional, even outlandish stuff. The difference is that it often will be longer term in nature, and very premeditated rather than spontaneous.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #38
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    As an F, I've been comfortable allowing my emotional state to influence and guide my life. However, I often wonder how wise this is. I mean, the emotional state is so ephemeral, and it bothers me when something feels right and then I discover it's not actually right. I feel like I am then questioning the deep essence of myself or my sanity or both.

    I am not even sure if this is really a problem here, or just the nature of the beast of which I should be aware.

    I'm primarily curious if anyone has any thoughts, their own experiences, etc about this topic... if it IS a topic.
    First, yes, it is a topic, and a good one at that.

    Similarly, I have encountered the situation when I have correctly perceived a situation, but jumped to the wrong conclusion. For example, let's say I notice someone is acting in a peculiar manner, and I pick up they are distressed. Indeed, they will be, but sometimes I will figure out the wrong reason due to a lack of information. And if I do not discuss the matter, I might react in a way inappropriate to the actual problem.

    Making decisions can be an issue as well. Acting on feelings is not necessarily a problem, whereas acting on *impulse* has nearly always proven detrimental. My coping mechanism: sleep on it. Usually my first impression is not accurate, and upon more pondering and mulling in my mind (not always conscious, can also be while sleeping) I come to a more accurate result.

    Of course, the problem is getting myself to take that time out. Feelings + thought + action. But sometimes you just want to dooooo something.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Hmm, I suppose then I am questioning my early decision making processes based on decades of evidence.
    there's a little baby ISTJ nodding it's head from the reverse order of every ENFP. wake her up.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I think you need both logic and emotion equally to be the most rational/logical person you can be. It made me think of this passage of a book I read called the "Happiness Hypothesis". I thought the author framed it in an interesting light.
    Happy New Years!


    Oooh, This was a wonderful read, thank you! I always love any psychology angle.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Every so often, emotional (as well as perceptual) impulses tug at me.. and I've followed them at times.. but mostly the idea scares the crap out of me. Perhaps Perceptual thinking is even worse.. it's more out of control and irrational. At least Fi is "judgement" based, not irrational. In any case, if you desired to be logical, you'd probably have to experience the same kind of anxiety and want to step back and willfully be logical. If F based decisions don't alarm you the moment you're aware of them, then it's too natural for you to really step back. Perhaps you'd be better off with an outside source of logic, a friend, to help out instead. It's a big world. It's logical to assume you don't have to do everything yourself.
    @bold: This is an aspect of my character in that I do think I have to do everything myself. My dad wanted to instill in me a sense of autonomy and instead he instilled in me an inability to ask for help except when I have been pushed so far I have no other choice.

    I guess I just question my F based decision making since it seems to so easily gloss over reality. Although perhaps this is more a Pe problem than F. It just aggravates me when I make a decision that seems so utterly right and then it doesn't pan out the way I want/envision and the world ends.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I can only speak from my perspective on what's an acceptable "blur". I think a lot of my "value" system is borrowed (Fe values), due to some spiritual beliefs and things I've read and thought about over time. It helped me get a perspective on being more humane and considerate. If I took a totally Ti Se viewpoint, I'd be trying to gain leverage on everyone around me. Which is how I used to think, give or take some exceptional moments.

    I don't really have a logical basis for why I adopt some F ideas now.. a lot of it was first spurred on by guilt and just not wanting to be a dick anymore. These aren't really logical platforms to base my decisions on, but I think it's best to just ignore that. It's helped me in many ways, and that's good enough. And if anything, it's practical to be humane and consider others.

    How you would come around to incorporating Te is kind of beyond me. But I think it can probably be done. Like the old saying goes, "if there's a will, there's a way". The fact that you desire some changes is already a change in itself. It'd be a bigger problem if you were completely oblivious. Maybe you just need to define and identify the exact areas where it's failing, and then simply take a slower, more methodical approach in these weak areas, rather than relying on your old "F" standby that's gotten you in trouble. Does that make sense? Basically, just take your time and learn from mistakes. This is Te at it's simplest.. this attention to doing things right. Some may even be obessesive about it. A lot of TJs dwell and think about process.. correct process, that is (you'll find that TPs probably frustrate them with a more ends/result based logic. So not even "logical" types are the same).
    Yes... this is a course of action that I can try out. It could be a way to course correct the "rightness" of internal feeling with the reality of external situations.

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