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  1. #11
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I've thought about this before, I'm not totally buying into the N= future business. That seems strictly Ni to me. Ni/Se some kind of an applicable version of the future. I personally am more present oriented but as you say, possibilities. Possibilities of the present or surrounding time. I draw a lot from the past as well. There are all these many different options of what could have/ what is/ what will be. That's "big picture" thinking without necessarily being focused on the future all the time. Ne is this really convoluted idea oriented writing of a choose your own adventure book or something.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I've thought about this before, I'm not totally buying into the N= future business. That seems strictly Ni to me. Ni/Se some kind of an applicable version of the future. I personally am more present oriented but as you say, possibilities. Possibilities of the present or surrounding time. I draw a lot from the past as well. There are all these many different options of what could have/ what is/ what will be. That's "big picture" thinking without necessarily being focused on the future all the time. Ne is this really convoluted idea oriented writing of a choose your own adventure book or something.
    Are you sure Ni/Se is more related to future business? There's quite a number of tin foil hats out there obsessed with conspiracy theories that exist in the present I've read that all humans have the ability to see ahead and plan ahead to a degree (probably because there is an evolutionary need to be able to see danger before it strikes) but it is in no fortune telling.

    From what I understand Se creates a framework of tangible data (think a sea of dots) which the Ni connects in a way it seems best later on (e.g. joining certain dots to each other so you can form a picture, for example creating a picture of a stick man from a large square consisting of dots whilst leaving most other dots blank.) Most of the data is dismissed and the joining of the dots which were taken into account creates a perception of the world which may or may not be true. I suspect this may be the reason why stronger Ni users have a weaker Se for a larger intake of sensory data would derail the delicate image the Ni has created in the mind.

    Long story short, I proposed before that the future focus of Ne is merely the mind playing tricks to avoid cognitive dissonance. I'm still on the fence on whether it is true/false or somewhere in between. However I do not see how it would be any different for Ni, the mind could just as easily realise it is not how things are and dismiss it as the future.

  3. #13
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    I think the future orientation of Ne is more optimistic, built more on pure speculation- whereas the future orientation of Ni is a mix of getting a glimpse of what is 'likely' to happen (it starts with trouble-shooting, wanting to avoid unwanted outcomes) and using speculation to form a best-case-scenario wanted outcome from it instead.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  4. #14
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Are you sure Ni/Se is more related to future business? There's quite a number of tin foil hats out there obsessed with conspiracy theories that exist in the present I've read that all humans have the ability to see ahead and plan ahead to a degree (probably because there is an evolutionary need to be able to see danger before it strikes) but it is in no fortune telling.

    From what I understand Se creates a framework of tangible data (think a sea of dots) which the Ni connects in a way it seems best later on (e.g. joining certain dots to each other so you can form a picture, for example creating a picture of a stick man from a large square consisting of dots whilst leaving most other dots blank.) Most of the data is dismissed and the joining of the dots which were taken into account creates a perception of the world which may or may not be true. I suspect this may be the reason why stronger Ni users have a weaker Se for a larger intake of sensory data would derail the delicate image the Ni has created in the mind.

    Long story short, I proposed before that the future focus of Ne is merely the mind playing tricks to avoid cognitive dissonance. I'm still on the fence on whether it is true/false or somewhere in between. However I do not see how it would be any different for Ni, the mind could just as easily realise it is not how things are and dismiss it as the future.
    Yea. I can see this POV as well. I may also be thinking of Ni in combination with Te or Fe, (thinking of like a bunch of politicians or something, "we will change the world for the better!")(or an intj sitting in the dark thinking about some evolutionary process where humans could be come extinct) which would include some variety of factors besides just having Ni vs. Ne. The cognitive dissonance statement sounds like it could involve other factors as well, though. (Ti influence, for instance.) I guess if you are going to be super-possibility focused your mind is eventually going to drift into the future either way.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  5. #15
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I think the future orientation of Ne is more optimistic, built more on pure speculation- whereas the future orientation of Ni is a mix of getting a glimpse of what is 'likely' to happen (it starts with trouble-shooting, wanting to avoid unwanted outcomes) and using speculation to form a best-case-scenario wanted outcome from it instead.
    I get the "glimpse". I can really relate to this post more than any other. My future visions are not based on past experiences at all unlike other Ne users on this thread. The future predictions I have are like visions that I watch in my head like a youtube video.

  6. #16
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    Ne seems more concerned with potentiality.


    Ni seems more cognizant of temporal happenings.

  7. #17
    Member Folderol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I would be interested to see how a more developed Si assists Ne (I love Ne to bits and would hate to see it undermined by Si.)
    A random theory: perhaps it links patterns and ideas to more concrete data as once experienced, like remembering the past way something was done and concentrating on if it can fit into an intuitive framework to draw conclusions. Maybe it could also prioritize finding situations where the outcome is a similar result of the original Si experience (reinforcing Si), even if it's not accomplished in the same way (Ne potential). This is a loose example, but you know the whole "there are many paths to climb a mountain" idea? Ne would just care about the options of paths available. With Si throw in though, perhaps just climbing the mountain isn't enough. Now one has to climb the mountain with something else taken into account, like the most scenic route (because last time the route was ugly and that created a negative impression), try to mimic the time table of the previous climb, even if on a different route (perhaps it was the optimal time to catch sunsets), or climb the mountain the hardest/easiest route (because hiking is an activity that you think should benefit you physically or not be too physical). Do you get what I mean? I read your post and was like "I'm gonna think about what that could entail" and then this all came to me in chunks as I typed (it actually came out faster on paper than in my head - Te?). I start typing something and then realize... where did that come from!? But it sounds like it makes sense.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folderol View Post
    A random theory: perhaps it links patterns and ideas to more concrete data as once experienced, like remembering the past way something was done and concentrating on if it can fit into an intuitive framework to draw conclusions. Maybe it could also prioritize finding situations where the outcome is a similar result of the original Si experience (reinforcing Si), even if it's not accomplished in the same way (Ne potential). This is a loose example, but you know the whole "there are many paths to climb a mountain" idea? Ne would just care about the options of paths available. With Si throw in though, perhaps just climbing the mountain isn't enough. Now one has to climb the mountain with something else taken into account, like the most scenic route (because last time the route was ugly and that created a negative impression), try to mimic the time table of the previous climb, even if on a different route (perhaps it was the optimal time to catch sunsets), or climb the mountain the hardest/easiest route (because hiking is an activity that you think should benefit you physically or not be too physical). Do you get what I mean? I read your post and was like "I'm gonna think about what that could entail" and then this all came to me in chunks as I typed (it actually came out faster on paper than in my head - Te?). I start typing something and then realize... where did that come from!? But it sounds like it makes sense.
    I like your thinking there, thank you. I was concerned beforehand that a developed Si would cause us to be set in our ways and more insular to alternate ideas to our own detriment - with an Si attempting to assert or seize control over the hierarchy resulting in a suppression of Ne and its many advantages. But I'm perfectly happy if it permamently maintains a supporting or subservient role to make Ne more efficient and streamlined.

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