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  1. #1
    Junior Member xennui's Avatar
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    Default Physiognomy Matrix (Do you see what I see?)

    Heya,

    This is my first post here, pardon any clumsiness.

    So I've always noticed similarities between people since I was a kid, resemblances and 'types' that I'd point out and people are like, "You need to get your eyes checked." In the past year, between getting obsessive with MBTI and spending a lot of time browsing http://www.celebritytypes.com, it all started to click.

    I've been taking the images from from their site and arranging them according to sub-types within the MBTI matrix. It's mostly visually, but also intuitive and based on what they do. To me the pattern just leaps out... to the site's owners and others I've showed it to, not so much :[ So I'm gonna try to throw some of the images up here and see if anyone else sees it.

    To answer, BTW, "are you just typing serious lookers with serious lookers, small chins w/ small chins, etc?"... yeah, all valid questions, needs double-blind, etc. But if you're seeing the patterns I'm seeing, you'll notice a huge differences between like the ESTP groups and the INTJ groups.

    -x

    p.s. I've added notes in the images for other interested parties, and images of typed friends, if you're like "wha... who?" Them's my scribbles!







  2. #2
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    General patterns.....hmmm I will have a looksee.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    I noticed that a lot of the men were politicians or historical figures, and a lot of the women were present-day celebrities.

    ESFP had a more youthful look, in general. ESTP had an intensity. ESFJ, INFP, INTJ, and ENTJ didn't really say much overall for me.

    What do you think you see in common?

  4. #4
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I see the patterns you see between the PEOPLE, but I don't think you're corresponding to personality correctly
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  5. #5
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I see the patterns you see between the PEOPLE, but I don't think you're corresponding to personality correctly
    Although I must admit, those ESFJ's have the same chin as me.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #6
    Junior Member xennui's Avatar
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    > What do you think you see in common?

    Well, first off, there's not "one look" per type, more like multiple breeds that that correlate / can be put in to each MBTI 'box'. Second, it's a "whole is more than some of the parts thing," and voice / movement / expression play in to it too, though what I seem to see is not personality and culture defining voice/expression but those things being as much a result of an initial biologically based progam, a template, an identifiable root pattern beneath the effects of culture, environment and the wear of time.

    Let's look at the ESTP's. (I mostly deal w/ Caucasian males so they're easiest to type for me. And make-up obscures to much, I don't visually type women well).

    When I look at the "Bulldog corner," (Johnson, Jackson, Churchill, Patton and Roosevelts), to me they have the same base facial structure, expression, pose... their mouths, that life-embraceing hunch like they're ready to spring or charge. You could totally pin the posture to personality, but to me the physcial and posture, the way the all position their lips, their scowls, it all reads as attributes of the same program. Like they're Mr. Potato head with different parts, that's how pattered it reads to me.

    Compare them with the face-punchees, people like Bush, Carnegee, Camera, Berlusconi... them dudes read like liars to me. More that just the self satisfied smirk, there's a directness to their gaze (Se), a special smirk, it coordinates with the roundness of the face, the same hairlines or patterns of receding... <sigh> these are straws I'm pointing at in a haystack of coordinated subtleties that scream out to me and if no-one's recognizing them but me, I could just be mad. I understand, but I press on.

    So let's compare some cross-MBTI groups. Because like, "Yeah, but masculine thin INTJ's are gonna look like masuline, thin ESFJ's. You're just sorting based on superficial similarties." is what people see, fo' sho'.

    Check out the top-left corner of the INTJ's, the "Supreme System Viewer" look; Schiller, Augustus \, Newton, Fischer, Asimov. This is another row that, to me, looks like one model with slightly different attributes, same base biological template in appearance and, I venture to guess, brain function, social type, they're variations of the same genetic/social 'expression.' Just purely visually, they have the same brow, mouth, chin, jaw, the same gaze, intensity, they're fucking taking shit apart just by looking at it.
    So let's compare with some equally fine representatives of masculinity over in ESFJ; Vin Diesel, Woody Harelson, Ford, these are the best visually matches to the INTJ "System Viewer" breed. Totally different animal, though. The ESFJ has a different mouth/smile structure, dimpled chins are rare, eyes tend to be a bit smaller and more sunken, with the brow slanting more downwards towards the outside. Lips are thin like some INTJ's, but the upper one is thinner and tends to be more pursed. Eyes look directly at you, wanting to engage, but in a more cautious, approval, wanting-to-connect way. Even Krugmen, one of the friendliest and least death-gaze looking INTJ's, reads as more of the piercing ENTP playful gaze than the cautious-yet-friendly stare of the ESFJ.


    I'm making statements here that come from experience dealing with types, and a lot of just watching and observing because that's preferable to dealing with them. It's a structure that's coming together but still rather gooey in my head so I'm not positing (yet), just throwing down my tea leaves

  7. #7
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Want some faces to look at?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #8
    Junior Member xennui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Want some faces to look at?
    Sure! I'm not gonna claim to be super-accurate, I'm becoming more convinced that movement is a part of it. I'm tripping on this; The Real Reason for Brains.

    But yes, I'll love a bank of faces with personality info to test my theory, if that's what you're getting at. I can't do it w/ sorting flashcards made from celebritytypes.com, know those too well and it wouldn't be double-blind.

    So, erm... watcha' got? Happy Hollydaze.

    -x

  9. #9
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xennui View Post
    Sure! I'm not gonna claim to be super-accurate, I'm becoming more convinced that movement is a part of it. I'm tripping on this; The Real Reason for Brains.

    But yes, I'll love a bank of faces with personality info to test my theory, if that's what you're getting at. I can't do it w/ sorting flashcards made from celebritytypes.com, know those too well and it wouldn't be double-blind.

    So, erm... watcha' got? Happy Hollydaze.

    -x
    Happy Crispmax to you too! Ok here's some whoring:



    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #10
    Junior Member xennui's Avatar
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    Hmmm, tough. Your face didn't scream a type to me right off. After comparing and-head scratching I'm gonna put you as an INFJ? Your chin temps me to say INFP but it may just be Irish. And I get an overall feel from it like Daniel Radcliff which would put it to ENFP (so they say, I think he's more INFP). But I dunno, when I apply my prime method which is putting you next to spreads of faces and moving things around until it resonates, your eyes tell me INFJ.

    So, 1st guess is INFJ.
    Second guess is xNFP.

    Am I close?


    I don't have a matrix done for INFJ, but Woodrow Wilson clicks. If you're xNFP, I've put you on my ENFP matrix with Radcliffe and Hunter S. Thompson;


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