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  1. #21
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    Ti>Se>Fe>Ni, more accurate.

  2. #22
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    Ni>Ti>Fe>Se...might be more me than I used to be. I'll think on it some more.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
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    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    @Mane


    Very cool work with the table. The next step is writing biographies for each one and then titling them
    interestingly enough, i found someone who did that for ENTPs, and did so using the exact same method of switching the order of the last 3 functions:

    The Madvillain [Ti Si Fe]: Often fitting into the role of Mad Scientist, or Mad Doctor. The Madvillain often scores extremely high in rationality and introverted thinking. Combining Ne and Ti to create a wacky, almost comical, personality type. The Madvillain loves to play with people, often views the world as a little game or experiment, and is probably the bluntest of the Snowflakes. However, this does not make him the most honest. The Madvillain will always do what benefits him the most. He doesn’t take sides and will often not believe in Good & Evil instead replacing it with what is interesting and what is boring. [Correlation: Chaotic Neutral]

    The Madvillain Quote: “There is no right and wrong. There’s only fun and boring.” ~ The Plague (Hackers, 1995) [Or: “I was born with a heart two sizes to small” ~ House MD]

    The Trickster [Ti Fe Si]: The Trickster is often shown as the dominate type of ENTP. This type makes of the most of what ENTPs are and is most often seen in articles relating to ENTPs. The Trickster is the equivalent of the Coyote Spirit. It loves playing with people, more so than the madvillain, often its pranks are riskful for itself, and the person being pranked. The Trickster is not all bad though. With Fe as a a secondary it can connect with its victims and know when it has went too far. One of the most famous tricksters is Wile E Coyote (Road Runner). The Trickster views the world as a stage, and loves the spotlight. [Correlation: Chaotic ——-]

    The Trickster Quote: “Right, too complicated. But what if I built a Burmese tiger trap?” ~ Wile E Coyote

    The Doctor [Fe Ti Si]: The Doctor is definitely the nicest of all the ENTPs. Think of them as Lucifer before he got kicked out of heaven. They are just the right combination of real Gentlemen, New World Explorer, and Party Animal. They often love meeting new people. Their Ti rivals their Fe. This allowing them to connect with people in a much deeper manner. They’ll bite their tongues if they feel something they’ll say will hurt someone else. They are pretty much the exact opposite of The Madvillain. The Doctor has a view of the world that is more idealistic than The Trickster. It believes it was put here to help people with its cunning brilliance. It wants to learn & often engages its friends in group decisions on topics they’d normally not talk about. [Correlation: Chaotic Good]

    The Doctor Quote: “They can shoot me dead, but the moral high ground is mine.” ~ Doctor Who (10th Doctor)

    The Professor [Fe Si Ti]: Oh, have you ever had an ENTP Teacher? Somehow they managed to be more Social with your feelings, Traditional with their rules, and Innovative with their logic? Yep, that would be The Professor. A Ne dominate with strong Fe and Si. The Professor is a teacher who will seat you by names and then call you to the front of the class to preform a play with him (or her). They’re outside of the box traditionalists. Extremely creative social gentlemen. The Professor is all about teaching, because like The Doctor, it only wants to help. [Correlation: Neutral Good]

    The Professor Quote: “So my idea of neurotic is spending too much time trying to correct a wrong. When I feel that I’m doing that, then I snap out of it.” ~ Gene Wilder

    The Hero [Si Fe Ti]: Every type has a Good and a Bad; perceived by the public’s eye; The Madvillain was already shown as “The Bad Guy” so its only right that “The Hero” be the stereotypical good guy. The Hero somehow manages to combine an extreme background in Traditions with the sporadic craziness. This type can often be confused for ESTJ due to its strong need to correct people who it thinks is in “The Wrong”. It’s the ENTP that would create a safe way for little old ladies to walk across the street. The can’t restrain themselves when it comes to something they feel is wrong. [Correlation: Lawful Good]

    The Hero Quote: “He called me irrepressible. This is a man who is truly irrepressible” ~ Q (Star Trek)

    The True Neutral [Si Ti Fe]: Almost robotic in terms, not much is known about this type for two reasons: A) They don’t appear to have any personal opinions or feelings; B) This is the rarest of all ENTPs. The True Neutral is the guy you turn to when you want the truth and nothing but the truth. Strong in Traditions but has a weak morality. It can easily get the job done on pretty much any Job. The True Neutral can easily be confused for an INTJ. [Correlation: True Neutral]

    The True Neutral Quote: ” ‘You’re out of my mind’ That’s between me and my mind. Let’s start with these rooms.” ~ Jubal Early (Firefly)


    Article by William C. [Liam Wulf]

  4. #24
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Well, for example, an ENTP is just as much defined by having inferior Si as by having dominant Ne..... there's no one without the other, there's obviously some other psychological happening if this appears to be the case.

    To a lesser extent, is a NeFeTiSi an ENTP or an ENFP with unusual auxiliary orientations? Is the stacking here more important or the orientations? This is more debatable.

    The only "alternative order" I would halfway buy right now would be Ne,Ti=Fe,Si (i.e. an ENZP )

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Well, for example, an ENTP is just as much defined by having inferior Si as by having dominant Ne.....

    Why? While i agree that Ne necessarily means Si (i see them as two sides of the same coin) i don't quite see why the location of one can be used to determine the location of the other. or in broader terms:

    this pattern:
    EP: Pe>Ji>Je>Pi
    IP: Ji>Pe>Pi>Je
    EJ: Je>Pi>Pe>Ji
    IJ: Pi>Je>Ji>Pe

    what is the cause of this?
    on what basis do we assume it?

  6. #26
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    as someone who fits into one of the non-traditional groups there, I've never quite felt like I fit into any of the descriptions or categories given, so why bother claiming something

    I've argued against strict structure for years on here though and there are some people who won't have it because people who write books say it is a certain way... it makes no sense to me, but whatever
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #27
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    If we're going to jumble them all up, I like think of myself as more Ti>Fe>Ni>Se, really.

    @Mane, I'm curious as to why you grouped me with the INFJs.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  8. #28
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    Why? While i agree that Ne necessarily means Si (i see them as two sides of the same coin) i don't quite see why the location of one can be used to determine the location of the other. or in broader terms:

    this pattern:
    EP: Pe>Ji>Je>Pi
    IP: Ji>Pe>Pi>Je
    EJ: Je>Pi>Pe>Ji
    IJ: Pi>Je>Ji>Pe

    what is the cause of this?
    on what basis do we assume it?
    Well....... it's basically for one to rise at the top it has to always push the other one down. (Going along with the first example) Intuition and sensation are opposites, one dismissing the actuality of things for what they could be, and one dismissing the potential of things for what they actually are. Both of these things are going on for everyone, but when you're talking of an Ne dom, you're taking about someone who most habitually is dismissing the actuality for the potential, and for this to habituate, the reverse of that must be repressed. Thinking and feeling don't have to be repressed because they are working on an entirely different dynamic of their own. Se has to be rejected entirely because as another extraverted perceiving function for it to be present it would have to take the place of Ne entirely..... but then Si isn't quite that threatening so it's kind of kept on the border of accepted and rejected, of conscious and unconscious.

    This is the state of the inferior. Ne decides to keep it around but treats it like a toddler, sits the kid in the backseat, plays a movie, but still there's the occasional poke on the shoulder, trying to climb into the front seat, having to stop to eat or to go potty or find a teddy bear...... Anyway an Ne dom can't just let Si in the front seat because Ne will want to turn left and Si will want to turn right and they'll both grab the wheel and end up either going nowhere or swerving off the road. (Again, the T and F functions can sit in the passenger seat because they have no rejection of the driver's ways) The only way for them to function together is to keep them in different rows and for Ne to be able to go its own way as dominant but still listen to the little Si in the backseat and keeps its complaints in mind and in check.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinmara View Post
    If we're going to jumble them all up, I like think of myself as more Ti>Fe>Ni>Se, really.

    @Mane, I'm curious as to why you grouped me with the INFJs.
    Because i've noted your use of Ti and Ni, which means you'd have to be an NFJ/STP, and my impression of you, though perhaps somewhat shallow in the amount of interaction i had to go by, is that you are very much a Judger... though like i said, most of the above "non MBTI-kosher" typing's are half-witted shots in the dark when i was looking for examples. i've had no problem editing a few people's location within it based on the feedback.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Well....... it's basically for one to rise at the top it has to always push the other one down. (Going along with the first example) Intuition and sensation are opposites, one dismissing the actuality of things for what they could be, and one dismissing the potential of things for what they actually are. Both of these things are going on for everyone, but when you're talking of an Ne dom, you're taking about someone who most habitually is dismissing the actuality for the potential, and for this to habituate, the reverse of that must be repressed. Thinking and feeling don't have to be repressed because they are working on an entirely different dynamic of their own. Se has to be rejected entirely because as another extraverted perceiving function for it to be present it would have to take the place of Ne entirely..... but then Si isn't quite that threatening so it's kind of kept on the border of accepted and rejected, of conscious and unconscious.

    This is the state of the inferior. Ne decides to keep it around but treats it like a toddler, sits the kid in the backseat, plays a movie, but still there's the occasional poke on the shoulder, trying to climb into the front seat, having to stop to eat or to go potty or find a teddy bear...... Anyway an Ne dom can't just let Si in the front seat because Ne will want to turn left and Si will want to turn right and they'll both grab the wheel and end up either going nowhere or swerving off the road. (Again, the T and F functions can sit in the passenger seat because they have no rejection of the driver's ways) The only way for them to function together is to keep them in different rows and for Ne to be able to go its own way as dominant but still listen to the little Si in the backseat and keeps its complaints in mind and in check.
    this is a very interesting take. But if the Ne has to repress the Si all the way to the inferior, why then can the INxP (Ji>Ne>Si>Je) be able to repress the Si only to one level bellow the Ne? it seems that functions throughout the MBTI are able to repress their counterparts to either 3 places bellow them or 1 place bellow them (with the unavailability of repressing it to 2 places bellow them merely stemming from the E/I/E/I & I/E/I/E structure). why couldn't the ENxP do the same as the INxP and have Ne>Si?

    another direction to approach it is what if developmental theory currently extrapolated form MBTI is wrong, and instead we overcome the different elements of the repression structure within the MBTI individually, in which case wouldn't it be possible for an ENTP to develop the Si earlier then other functions, to the point of being influenced by it and using it to an auxiliary or tertiary extent rather then the "official" tertiary/auxiliary functions?


    this might be a good place to add my own interpretation to the MBTI, as i am inclined to seen the corresponding functions as two outputs - two sides of the same coin - of the same trait.
    for this example, while Si reacts to a new experience by going back to draw from one's mental collection of experiences and gauge a comparison, Ne reacts to new patterns by going back to one's mental collection of patterns to connect & breed them together into forming new patterns.
    while SJs and NPs are both Collectors in the back of our minds, i think a possible explanation to why we focus more on one then the other, is that our past experience (Si) tends to give a very coherent clear cut answer to the mental question at hand, maximizing the need for clarity & order (satisfying the J need), while our breeding grounds for emergent new patterns give us the biggest number of answers we haven't encountered before, maximizing the need for stimuli (satisfying the P need).

    i'm not saying that i adhere by that interpretation and you have to explain by it for me to accept it, just putting it out there to see what it adds to the conversation.

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