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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You need to learn to understand your emotions better, so they dont have such a deep impact on you when they happen next time. And you need to find people who value your emotions, cause after all they are who you are. Just dont kill anybody or yourself

    I guess im just not ready to understand them. Can I accept them I wonder?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #12
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I guess im just not ready to understand them. Can I accept them I wonder?
    Understand them you can, accept them I doubt you will. Self-Doubt is the bane of intelligent beings
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #13
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Understand them you can, accept them I doubt you will. Self-Doubt is the bane of intelligent beings
    I agree completely. Although I wouldnt call myself an intelligent being, a whiny bitch maybe.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #14
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I agree completely. Although I wouldnt call myself an intelligent being, a whiny bitch maybe.
    Thats one of the most illogical things of the universe, why whiny bitches are usually the most intelligent. And its so unamerican
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    This is what I dont like, (har har yes feeler judgement), about feeling.
    Me too. I've taken up learning CBT and have taken a class on stress management to help. I think being a 6 on the enneagram has a lot to do with it too - we're really volatile and because we're reactive it often feels like we don't have much control.

    But Thinkers have feeling as well, it is just not as dominant. What differentiates a well developed thinker in this regard?
    Just their preference! We have Thinking, too.

  6. #16
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Thats one of the most illogical things of the universe, why whiny bitches are usually the most intelligent. And its so unamerican
    That's alright then, because im not american.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Me too. I've taken up learning CBT and have taken a class on stress management to help. I think being a 6 on the enneagram has a lot to do with it too - we're really volatile and because we're reactive it often feels like we don't have much control.
    Hmm thanks for this, ill have a look.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #17
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Be glad having a heightened sensibility. I'ld kill people if I at times could be more sensible with my Fi gf. But I aint and never will be.

    This guy is my idol:
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #18
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Except "Feeling" in MBTI/Jung terms, is not emotion in a strict sense. It's more a mnemonic for a way of thinking, which is just as much really thinking as "Thinking" is thinking.

    In this sense, intuition, sensing, thinking and feeling, are ALL THINKING. They're different kinds of thinking. Once one realizes this simple fact, MBTI and Jungian functions make a hell of a lot more sense.

    If you're just talking in a strict way about Thinking and Feeling, T and F, Te and Ti vs Fe and Fi ... then the main difference between Thinking and Feeling is that Thinking is done in a "discrete" way (not "discreet" - google the definitions), while Feeling is done in a more continuous or holistic way. Thinking is capable of explaining "why" something is true. Feeling tends to "just know" it's true (much like intuition).

    It can get a bit confusing, of course, once we distinguish between the introverted and extroverted forms of these. Fe tends to be able to explain exactly why something is true or false (or right or wrong), and it takes close listening to realize that the arguments are being made are not really following strict logic, but are more like "common sense" heuristics, or when a bit more opinionated, they're often named (on this forum) "values". Also Ti can often seem to "just know" that something is logically true or false (and be absolutely correct), but yet have a hard time explaining why (because it is introverted).

    The main difference of perspective between Thinking and Feeling is that Thinking needs to rationalize decisions in terms of "objective" criteria (they aren't always really objective, but they're still criteria), while Feeling simply needs to "feel" that the decision is right. I believe this particular context of the word "feel" comes closest to what MBTI/Jung Feeling is.

    Thinking isn't particularly more useful than Feeling, but each covers the other's weaknesses. Feeling is pretty fast at judging things, and given experience, can process a lot more information faster than thinking. Imagine Thinking as a stream of text words (or math), and feeling as a piece of music or a movie. It takes a lot of "Thinking" to get to the level of information processed by Feeling. But the Feeling process is "lossy": it's mostly right, it looks right, but often critical bits get lost, and if those bits were important, then your feeling is wrong (in your own opinion, but you don't realize it because you missed something). Thinking is more precise, but because it cannot really cover every single possibility, it limits its spectrum to processing data that yields to analysis. So Thinking is often "more correct" than Feeling, but mostly on a subset of all human ideas. Feeling is capable of handling all sorts of ideas that Thinking doesn't handle so well, but at the cost of losing accuracy, especially in those areas where analytical thinking is adept.

    Oh, and this cartoon is, as ever, apropos:

    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  9. #19
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post

    Thinking is capable of explaining "why" something is true. Feeling tends to "just know" it's true (much like intuition).
    I find thinking to be preferable in this sense. Exactly how can feeling show what is true, since it only assumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Fe tends to be able to explain exactly why something is true or false (or right or wrong), and it takes close listening to realize that the arguments are being made are not really following strict logic, but are more like "common sense" heuristics, or when a bit more opinionated, they're often named (on this forum) "values". Also Ti can often seem to "just know" that something is logically true or false (and be absolutely correct), but yet have a hard time explaining why (because it is introverted).
    Interesting comparison, im reminded of the link between a functions opposite in it's place as dominant. Also I wish I could be more certain of my 'values'. To me it seems any value is subjectively true, so how can I enforce my own truth on others?

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The main difference of perspective between Thinking and Feeling is that Thinking needs to rationalize decisions in terms of "objective" criteria (they aren't always really objective, but they're still criteria), while Feeling simply needs to "feel" that the decision is right. I believe this particular context of the word "feel" comes closest to what MBTI/Jung Feeling is.
    Which is what I take issue with. I know I shouldn't, but...it's hard not to.
    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Thinking isn't particularly more useful than Feeling, but each covers the other's weaknesses. Feeling is pretty fast at judging things, and given experience, can process a lot more information faster than thinking. Imagine Thinking as a stream of text words (or math), and feeling as a piece of music or a movie. It takes a lot of "Thinking" to get to the level of information processed by Feeling. But the Feeling process is "lossy": it's mostly right, it looks right, but often critical bits get lost, and if those bits were important, then your feeling is wrong (in your own opinion, but you don't realize it because you missed something). Thinking is more precise, but because it cannot really cover every single possibility, it limits its spectrum to processing data that yields to analysis. So Thinking is often "more correct" than Feeling, but mostly on a subset of all human ideas. Feeling is capable of handling all sorts of ideas that Thinking doesn't handle so well, but at the cost of losing accuracy, especially in those areas where analytical thinking is adept.
    Thanks for this, it is a very good explanation. Very precise....very Thinker.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #20
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Well sqrt heart would be heart^1/2 and cos heart must be between 0 and 1, while d/dx heart would be prolly be a broken rational function and you could just hope for a strong Asymptote. But identity matrix one o one heart and that we know since Gauss must be the key. What could possibly be more important than finding once identity ?

    e^it is the Euler equation. That would be cos(t) + i*sin(t). If that goes against infinity it would run in a circle what on the other hand would mean circle divided by sqrt(2*pi). Since 2*pi is a circle in Radian units, circle divided by sqrt(2*pi) does mean one half circle, which again would be the epitome of love, no ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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