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Thread: S/N and Reason

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    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Default S/N and Reason

    I've always felt I know the difference - meaning it makes sense in my mind in a non-verbal way, but I can't explain it to others as well - but I want to raise a question. I began reading Kant's Critique of Pure Reason, of which the topic thus far is knowledge a priori - in its purest form, knowledge of something without experience of it, but solely through deductive or inductive reasoning - and knowledge a posteriori - knowledge based on experience: empirical knowledge. So, I'm wondering: would it be safe to say that intuitive types are more prone - or capable - to a priori knowledge and sensing types more prone - or capable - to a posteriori knowledge.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

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    I've considered this possibility myself but I'm inclined to disagree. I think both N and S are pure a posteriori but the difference is that the intuitive types merely are less aware of the information they have been taking in or less aware of the impressions of physical reality stored. Because they are consciously not/less aware they have perceived this data and don't consciously realise they have it at all however their subconscious does and the intuitive function proceeds accordingly. The end results when the N function finishes with this data seems like magic as to the conscious mind it was working with nothing.

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    I've recently made a thread about these thoughts I found personally enlightening to write; you can find it here.


    I don't believe there is an inherent difference between sensors and intuits how conclusions are drawn about data. I do believe the differences in learning has more to do with preference for using the Ne/Si or Se/Ni function sets. Put in terms you have used, Ne/Si users prefer inductive reasoning; Se/Ni users preferring deductive reasoning. Ne/Si users are more prone to subjectively perceive connections in data and trust these hunches to be correct, as they can likely be modified when further evidence is provided. Se/Ni users are more prone to objectively perceive what is present and then sort through the facts as thought is invested in the subject. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.


    Of course, there are all kinds of modifiers to the equation, which I hope to get into over the coming months - Te/Fe and Ti/Fi can do neat things to cognitive functioning. To directly address your thought, I believe you are implying that Ne/Ni dominants are more capable than those with intuition lower in their function stacking to generate 'knowledge' or 'factual universal statements'. I'd be inclined to agree, but I'd also like to state they are more inclined to be wrong about most things.

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    S and N are ways of perceiving, not ways of judgments, thats why they are called perceiving/irrational functions. T and F are judging/rational functions. Empirical would be most often seen in Te types, but i think it can also be achieved by using S + Ti.
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    When people start to put things, like the aquisition of knowledge, into these neat little categories, my brain gets overloaded, and gets ready to erupt.

    Personally, I have a much more simplistic view of knowledge, rather than one revolving around complex definitions.

    Anyway, I hold that all knowledge has its ultimate origins within our perceptions, that is, the way we are seeing and perceiving things, or in other terms, our focus, determines our reality, everything in reality being relative to the reference point of the observor.

    Therefore, in my theory, if you wish to aquire the knowledge of all things, it follows that we need to open our eyes and awaken to each end every dimensional perspective of the creation, to be able to look at things from all angles, and even turn the Universe itself on its head. What I seek is surpeme omnipotence, not just a harmonious knowledge with the natural world. Then, with our knowledge, we must bring this harmony under our control, this being the way of power, what I believe to be the ultimate virtue.

    I guess what I said is not completely related to the OP, but to say something more relevant, I have seen some forum members say that dedective reasoning falls more in line with functions like Ti and Ne, while inductive reasoning is favored more by Te and Ni. I could though, of course, be completely wrong about this, and frankly I don't even understand why these functions would favor these particular types of reasoning, let alone understand the basic principles of the reasoning thereof. If you are interested, seek someone who has more knowledge than I do which, ironically, was the theme of this thread, the aquisition of knowledge, so inquire away from, like I said, all sources conceivable.

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    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    knowledge a priori - in its purest form, knowledge of something without experience of it, but solely through deductive or inductive reasoning - and knowledge a posteriori - knowledge based on experience: empirical knowledge.
    By the function definitions, it would make more sense that a priori knowledge would come from the judgement or "reasoning" functions (T/F) and a posteriori knowledge would come from the perceiving or "information gathering" functions (S/N). Everyone has both perceiving and judging functions, and everyone depends on both types of knowledge.

    For example, ExxP and IxxJ types might rely more on a priori information gathered from Se/Ne/Si/Ni (whatever is dominant) rather than from reasoning, whereas IxxP and ExxJ types would tend to rely on a posteriori information reasoned through Ti/Te/Fe/Fi. Supporting functions make everything more complicated of course, and more balanced.

    That said, I think most humans rely more on experience-based knowledge than on reasoning-based knowledge, overall. It's just the relative importance that may be shifted.
    -end of thread-

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    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Ne/Si users prefer inductive reasoning; Se/Ni users preferring deductive reasoning. Ne/Si users are more prone to subjectively perceive connections in data and trust these hunches to be correct, as they can likely be modified when further evidence is provided. Se/Ni users are more prone to objectively perceive what is present and then sort through the facts as thought is invested in the subject. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
    i disagree. j types use inductive inference. p types use deductive inference. n types use abductive inference to revise the conditions of possibility or, as philosopher charles peirce describes, as using the rules and result to derive the case (the classic sherlock holmes deducing the causes from the effects). it goes backwards in time to reconcile possibilities into probabiliities when necessities are unfeasible.

    if you talk to an Ne dom, you will usually get the sense that their histories are eventually knowingly non-linear. no specific, observable thread carries through. it simply can't. no certainty is possible. so while deductive style inferencing is possible, the objects and the thread, the movements, are revising themselves in the process of moving. as are the movements themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i disagree. j types use inductive inference. p types use deductive inference. n types use abductive inference to revise the conditions of possibility or, as philosopher charles peirce describes, as using the rules and result to derive the case (the classic sherlock holmes deducing the causes from the effects). it goes backwards in time to reconcile possibilities into probabiliities when necessities are unfeasible.

    if you talk to an Ne dom, you will usually get the sense that their histories are eventually knowingly non-linear. no specific, observable thread carries through. it simply can't. no certainty is possible. so while deductive style inferencing is possible, the objects and the thread, the movements, are revising themselves in the process of moving. as are the movements themselves.

    I actually thought of the errors I'd made later in the day, hoping no one would think too hard into what I'd said. I intended to edit my post, yet here we are.


    I'm gonna have to think about this a little bit more to give a proper response.

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