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Winds of Thor

New member
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
1,842
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Maybe the spoiled types? The ones that are told they're princesses? The Tauruses? ENFJs?
 

Nicki

Retired
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
1,505
Whenever my parents told me to do anything, I demanded an explanation why and if it didn't make sense, I resisted. I think ESTPs and ENTPs would be the types who resisted the most as children though.
 

Standuble

New member
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Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,149
I don't think one type would necessarily be more likely to resist than others function wise. If it was for one particular reason then yes but something can be resisted for a myriad of reasons. Would be more on an individual basis. I imagine each doing the following though I may be wrong (they shouldn't have a developed auxilary to really broaden their thought process.)

Fi-dom kids: Not personally valuing or seeing the subjective value in a demanded course of action.
Ti-dom kids: What they have been asked to do doesn't fit with their logical understanding of things.
Ne-dom kids: Not happy with having to agree with what their parents think when other possibilities exist.
Se-dom kids: Not happy with doing what they're told when there's something more interesting to do elsewhere.
Ni-dom kids: Not happy with a level of involvement sensory-data they may have to employ for a given task / do not believe this should be happening.
Si-dom kids: Not happy with a perceived change from the routine of what they believe normally happens.
Fe-dom kids: Not happy if feels the instruction has made others unhappy.
Te-dom kids: Not happy if believes the instruction isn't creating the best results.

P.S. the above are all my impressions of each young type. Apologies if they are caricatures.
 

Such Irony

Honor Thy Inferior
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
5,059
MBTI Type
INtp
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I don't think one type would necessarily be more likely to resist than others function wise. If it was for one particular reason then yes but something can be resisted for a myriad of reasons. Would be more on an individual basis. I imagine each doing the following though I may be wrong (they shouldn't have a developed auxilary to really broaden their thought process.)

Fi-dom kids: Not personally valuing or seeing the subjective value in a demanded course of action.
Ti-dom kids: What they have been asked to do doesn't fit with their logical understanding of things.
Ne-dom kids: Not happy with having to agree with what their parents think when other possibilities exist.
Se-dom kids: Not happy with doing what they're told when there's something more interesting to do elsewhere.
Ni-dom kids: Not happy with a level of involvement sensory-data they may have to employ for a given task / do not believe this should be happening.
Si-dom kids: Not happy with a perceived change from the routine of what they believe normally happens.
Fe-dom kids: Not happy if feels the instruction has made others unhappy.
Te-dom kids: Not happy if believes the instruction isn't creating the best results.

P.S. the above are all my impressions of each young type. Apologies if they are caricatures.

I agree that kids of all types can be resistant. Especially when their dominant function has been 'violated' in some way and they are forced to use weaker functions.
 

Standuble

New member
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,149
Fi: Subjective value as in value for the one who asks?
Ti: Interesting.
Ne: There's always other possibilities...
Se: Sounds like the spoiled kind.
Ni: That sounds... Mystical. "This should not be happening!" kind of thing. I find this rather stupid, because it is the opposite of reality.
Si: Interesting.
Fe: Instructions usually are there to make others happy. Either way, someone will be unhappy - either the instructor or someone else, if the instruction won't be completed.
Te: I don't think kids can grasp the concept of "best results" very well, especially when they don't know anything about the subject...

I was working with caricatures as mentioned before. I could be completely wrong on most if not pretty much all of them for all I know.

To clarify my points:
Fi: As in what the individual feels is good/bad or right/wrong which may differ from what the authority figure thought was right/wrong. When I was a wee little lad this was already well developed. I knew when I didn't think what I was being told to do was right or what I wanted to do.
Ne: Parents insisting that a certain way be accepted and followed without question (probably an Si-dom/aux parent in this situation) and reprimanding the Ne user for trying to consider other avenues instead.
Se: Perhaps spoiled, perhaps not. Could be no more spoiled than wanting to play in the park rather than going with a parent to some place or another where they would have to sit still with nothing to do.
Ni: I don't really understand Ni. I wasn't aiming for the mystical angle, just working with the explanations of supposed Ni users I had met in my time: building a subjective, unconscious framework of reality from stored patterns that have occurred which is then synthesized into a idea of what is most likely to be true/happening probability wise. Confusion or disbelief may occur if what actually occurs was a low probability event which the Ni dismissed as "not going to happen" which could undermine a number of other long-term projections. As a result, the child resists the situation. Alternatively, they could also resist if the parent's instruction is causing the inferior Se to interfere with Ni when it's trying to focus.
Fe: I envisioned in this one of a kid playing with a group of friends and a parent telling them they have to go home/away etc. The kid realised that their friends are unhappy/sad that the friend has to leave and that the parent is seemingly indifferent mood wise whether the kid complies or not. Valuing group harmony, the kid says no and it proceeds from there.
Te: I had a bit of trouble with this one too. My understanding of Te (from what I read somewhere) is that it primarily adapts itself based on parameters from real-world logical structures, the more efficient or expedient the structure the more Te seeks to emulate it. If the Te-dom already has been exposed to systems they know to work yet they are being instructed by an elder to follow through a course of action which their Te says is less efficient than what they've already seen can work in their current environment (if they disobey the instruction of coure) then would they follow it? Te is my inferior function though so it's possible I have made errors in my reasoning.

I don't know if I would be able to expand much further on the above points without literally pulling at straws!
 

entropie

Permabanned
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Apr 24, 2008
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entp
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Whenever my parents told me to do anything, I demanded an explanation why and if it didn't make sense, I resisted. I think ESTPs and ENTPs would be the types who resisted the most as children though.

No. When I became three I told my parents what to do :) Baby Cat's are deadly
 

entropie

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entp
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You are my idol. They have evil claws of doom.

I've had an estp friend in my youth; veeeery charming guy, one of those guys who knows every person in a 500 k people town. Very businessmanlike and professional. he charmed his Dad in no time but his Mom was the devil. he never managed to charm her and she drove him to that point when he actually started to argue with her and lost his mask.
So you are absolutely right, extp kids and adults are the most independant and the least likely to bend to rules. I just want to add that this doesnt necessarily means trouble, just another way of dealing with the kids. Best way here is always to give them something and then collect your fee. If you treat extp kids like a businessman you shouldnt have problems :)
 

Nicki

Retired
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Jun 26, 2010
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1,505
I've had an estp friend in my youth; veeeery charming guy, one of those guys who knows every person in a 500 k people town. Very businessmanlike and professional. he charmed his Dad in no time but his Mom was the devil. he never managed to charm her and she drove him to that point when he actually started to argue with her and lost his mask.
So you are absolutely right, extp kids and adults are the most independant and the least likely to bend to rules. I just want to add that this doesnt necessarily means trouble, just another way of dealing with the kids. Best way here is always to give them something and then collect your fee. If you treat extp kids like a businessman you shouldnt have problems :)

Haha I have an ESTP friend now who's such a freaking charmer. Every time he meets someone, they end up adoring him in seconds. I see, what type was his mom?

Definitely and that's why I love them. ;) That makes sense. How do you handle Se-dom kids in general?
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
Whatever type my nephew is. Or perhaps he is just spoilt...or at a certain age of perspective.

In any case....it's resistance all the way.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
If you talk to my parents about me as a child, you would think they had spawned a three ring circus encased within the cellular walls of a girl.

i was extremely resistant to their whims and demands. i demanded explanations for what they wanted me to do. not out of some drive for logic, you see, but more out of a desire to wear them out and make them go "ugh! it's easier if i do this myself!" i used to "negotiate" terms with them in regards to what i could or couldn't do, and would insert semantical clauses that i would later twist around for a new purpose.

Hmm, maybe I was a horrible child. D: /epiphany
 

entropie

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Haha I have an ESTP friend now who's such a freaking charmer. Every time he meets someone, they end up adoring him in seconds. I see, what type was his mom?

Definitely and that's why I love them. ;) That makes sense. How do you handle Se-dom kids in general?

I didnt know his Mom enough to type her. Just seen her once, other than that he warded contact between her and his friends off pretty well. He just told me about the things she forbid again a lot. his Moms desire to control him wasnt totally without reason. He had one or two police problems at home and then of course his Mom freaked out. Its difficult to say tho what type she was.

I have had, in the course of my life, little to no direct contact to Se/Ni people or Ni/Se people. I have founded a webdesign company with an INTJ which we ran for 10 years and made some money and became a good friend for the estp for some time. But the relationship with Se's was always businesslike. On a level where we gave each other something professionally, not heartly. the INTJ was a skilled programmer but design and achieving contracts wasnt his thing. So I brought in the contracts and programmed the flash animations, while he did the whole html and php. I am a skilled programmer as well but I could never kept his pace. He wrote code over night for which I had needed a month. And I did the tax as well :/. The estp had a billion friends but noone he could trust. So for a time I became someone to him, he could tell everything. And he used my abilities to be a listener a lot. Tho I am actually a bad listener but things seem to change when two very verbally extroverted people clash in that regards.

So both very formal very businesslike relationships. More than that I rarely get with Ni/Se folks. Especially not with Te/Fi people. of them all I can talk best with ENTJs but they are a mystery book to me always. The moment I deviate from speaking very clearly and start to speak in metaphors like I like to do, I loose all Se or Te folks in the conversation. In that moments you can really see the difference of functions. So be glad I have drunken wine today, otherwise I wouldnt speak so clearly :D
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
My family is polite and my mother was always good about explaining why she wanted me to do things. I was generally passive and compliant unless someone I didn't respect tried to pull rank on me and bossed me around rudely instead of asking politely. I tend to lose all sense of self-preservation when that kind of thing happens and will fight it for all I'm worth.

That said, I did not always do what I was told. I am lazy and forgetful. However, if I was told *not* to do something, I DID NOT DO IT. Even if I disagreed with the prohibition. Even if I thought it was stupid. If the person had a legitimate right (in my mind) to tell me not to do something, I obeyed.

My husband is an INTP and is pretty similar. My four kids, IXTJ, XFXP, XXTJ, and IXTX seem to be the same way. Or else they are really sneaky. I'm not ruling that out.
 

Nicki

Retired
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Messages
1,505
I didnt know his Mom enough to type her. Just seen her once, other than that he warded contact between her and his friends off pretty well. He just told me about the things she forbid again a lot. his Moms desire to control him wasnt totally without reason. He had one or two police problems at home and then of course his Mom freaked out. Its difficult to say tho what type she was.

I have had, in the course of my life, little to no direct contact to Se/Ni people or Ni/Se people. I have founded a webdesign company with an INTJ which we ran for 10 years and made some money and became a good friend for the estp for some time. But the relationship with Se's was always businesslike. On a level where we gave each other something professionally, not heartly. the INTJ was a skilled programmer but design and achieving contracts wasnt his thing. So I brought in the contracts and programmed the flash animations, while he did the whole html and php. I am a skilled programmer as well but I could never kept his pace. He wrote code over night for which I had needed a month. And I did the tax as well :/. The estp had a billion friends but noone he could trust. So for a time I became someone to him, he could tell everything. And he used my abilities to be a listener a lot. Tho I am actually a bad listener but things seem to change when two very verbally extroverted people clash in that regards.

So both very formal very businesslike relationships. More than that I rarely get with Ni/Se folks. Especially not with Te/Fi people. of them all I can talk best with ENTJs but they are a mystery book to me always. The moment I deviate from speaking very clearly and start to speak in metaphors like I like to do, I loose all Se or Te folks in the conversation. In that moments you can really see the difference of functions. So be glad I have drunken wine today, otherwise I wouldnt speak so clearly :D

Oh woah, I see.

There seems to be a lot of Se/Ni people in high school. Oh okay, I see. He seems like a hard worker.

I read in the ESTP profile at personality page that they have few friends that are truly supportive of them. That's nice of you to do, how did you guys meet?

I've meet very few Ni/Se users. One is an ENFJ close friend while the other's an INTJ who's rather arrogant and rude. Lol, I see. What kind of metaphors do you use?
 

RaptorWizard

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INTJ
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5w6
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sx/so
ISTP rebels resist the most making them more intelligent than any of us since they are not trapped in the matrix!
 

Nicki

Retired
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
1,505
My family is polite and my mother was always good about explaining why she wanted me to do things. I was generally passive and compliant unless someone I didn't respect tried to pull rank on me and bossed me around rudely instead of asking politely. I tend to lose all sense of self-preservation when that kind of thing happens and will fight it for all I'm worth.

That said, I did not always do what I was told. I am lazy and forgetful. However, if I was told *not* to do something, I DID NOT DO IT. Even if I disagreed with the prohibition. Even if I thought it was stupid. If the person had a legitimate right (in my mind) to tell me not to do something, I obeyed.

My husband is an INTP and is pretty similar. My four kids, IXTJ, XFXP, XXTJ, and IXTX seem to be the same way. Or else they are really sneaky. I'm not ruling that out.

What sort of people would that be?

How's it like raising xxTJ children?
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
What sort of people would that be?
What sort of people would what be?
How's it like raising xxTJ children?
Sort of like training smart, stubborn, somewhat dominant dogs, except you can have entire conversations with them. You have to win their respect and not let them get by with too much until they recognize that you are the leader and then you have to try not to be stupid and lose the respect while they are still your legal responsibility. Gee I'm such a peach of a mom, lol.

One of them is raised and the other is almost sixteen and they are pleasant and comfortable company. They are generally reliable and very low-drama, which is sometimes a nice break from dealing with my XXFP, let me tell ya. :laugh:
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
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Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
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5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Would those be P or J type kids who resist the most to what their parents/etc. tell them? I'm not entirely sure if the resistance is related to lack of showed proof or not... But I think in case the proof doesn't matter it would be Fi types, and if proof does matter, then it would be Te types (maybe Ti too?).
By resist I mean "clean your teeth!" and the kid refuses to do so. "Take a bath!" the kid goes as far as screaming when being taken to the bath (maybe dislikes the bath :D). Just two pretty rough examples to illustrate the point, however don't take them as the "this and not something else," those are just examples to illustrate the abstract idea.

MBTI: ESTPs, ISTPs, ESFPs, ENTJs
Enneagram: 7, 8 (particularly 7w8 and 8w7)
Tritype: 378, 368, 749, 468
Instinctual Variant: Sexual
 
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