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  1. #11
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    No. When I became three I told my parents what to do Baby Cat's are deadly
    You are my idol. They have evil claws of doom.

  2. #12
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    You are my idol. They have evil claws of doom.
    I've had an estp friend in my youth; veeeery charming guy, one of those guys who knows every person in a 500 k people town. Very businessmanlike and professional. he charmed his Dad in no time but his Mom was the devil. he never managed to charm her and she drove him to that point when he actually started to argue with her and lost his mask.
    So you are absolutely right, extp kids and adults are the most independant and the least likely to bend to rules. I just want to add that this doesnt necessarily means trouble, just another way of dealing with the kids. Best way here is always to give them something and then collect your fee. If you treat extp kids like a businessman you shouldnt have problems
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #13
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I've had an estp friend in my youth; veeeery charming guy, one of those guys who knows every person in a 500 k people town. Very businessmanlike and professional. he charmed his Dad in no time but his Mom was the devil. he never managed to charm her and she drove him to that point when he actually started to argue with her and lost his mask.
    So you are absolutely right, extp kids and adults are the most independant and the least likely to bend to rules. I just want to add that this doesnt necessarily means trouble, just another way of dealing with the kids. Best way here is always to give them something and then collect your fee. If you treat extp kids like a businessman you shouldnt have problems
    Haha I have an ESTP friend now who's such a freaking charmer. Every time he meets someone, they end up adoring him in seconds. I see, what type was his mom?

    Definitely and that's why I love them. That makes sense. How do you handle Se-dom kids in general?

  4. #14
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Whatever type my nephew is. Or perhaps he is just spoilt...or at a certain age of perspective.

    In any case....it's resistance all the way.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #15
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    If you talk to my parents about me as a child, you would think they had spawned a three ring circus encased within the cellular walls of a girl.

    i was extremely resistant to their whims and demands. i demanded explanations for what they wanted me to do. not out of some drive for logic, you see, but more out of a desire to wear them out and make them go "ugh! it's easier if i do this myself!" i used to "negotiate" terms with them in regards to what i could or couldn't do, and would insert semantical clauses that i would later twist around for a new purpose.

    Hmm, maybe I was a horrible child. D: /epiphany

  6. #16
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    Haha I have an ESTP friend now who's such a freaking charmer. Every time he meets someone, they end up adoring him in seconds. I see, what type was his mom?

    Definitely and that's why I love them. That makes sense. How do you handle Se-dom kids in general?
    I didnt know his Mom enough to type her. Just seen her once, other than that he warded contact between her and his friends off pretty well. He just told me about the things she forbid again a lot. his Moms desire to control him wasnt totally without reason. He had one or two police problems at home and then of course his Mom freaked out. Its difficult to say tho what type she was.

    I have had, in the course of my life, little to no direct contact to Se/Ni people or Ni/Se people. I have founded a webdesign company with an INTJ which we ran for 10 years and made some money and became a good friend for the estp for some time. But the relationship with Se's was always businesslike. On a level where we gave each other something professionally, not heartly. the INTJ was a skilled programmer but design and achieving contracts wasnt his thing. So I brought in the contracts and programmed the flash animations, while he did the whole html and php. I am a skilled programmer as well but I could never kept his pace. He wrote code over night for which I had needed a month. And I did the tax as well :/. The estp had a billion friends but noone he could trust. So for a time I became someone to him, he could tell everything. And he used my abilities to be a listener a lot. Tho I am actually a bad listener but things seem to change when two very verbally extroverted people clash in that regards.

    So both very formal very businesslike relationships. More than that I rarely get with Ni/Se folks. Especially not with Te/Fi people. of them all I can talk best with ENTJs but they are a mystery book to me always. The moment I deviate from speaking very clearly and start to speak in metaphors like I like to do, I loose all Se or Te folks in the conversation. In that moments you can really see the difference of functions. So be glad I have drunken wine today, otherwise I wouldnt speak so clearly
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #17
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    My family is polite and my mother was always good about explaining why she wanted me to do things. I was generally passive and compliant unless someone I didn't respect tried to pull rank on me and bossed me around rudely instead of asking politely. I tend to lose all sense of self-preservation when that kind of thing happens and will fight it for all I'm worth.

    That said, I did not always do what I was told. I am lazy and forgetful. However, if I was told *not* to do something, I DID NOT DO IT. Even if I disagreed with the prohibition. Even if I thought it was stupid. If the person had a legitimate right (in my mind) to tell me not to do something, I obeyed.

    My husband is an INTP and is pretty similar. My four kids, IXTJ, XFXP, XXTJ, and IXTX seem to be the same way. Or else they are really sneaky. I'm not ruling that out.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #18
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I didnt know his Mom enough to type her. Just seen her once, other than that he warded contact between her and his friends off pretty well. He just told me about the things she forbid again a lot. his Moms desire to control him wasnt totally without reason. He had one or two police problems at home and then of course his Mom freaked out. Its difficult to say tho what type she was.

    I have had, in the course of my life, little to no direct contact to Se/Ni people or Ni/Se people. I have founded a webdesign company with an INTJ which we ran for 10 years and made some money and became a good friend for the estp for some time. But the relationship with Se's was always businesslike. On a level where we gave each other something professionally, not heartly. the INTJ was a skilled programmer but design and achieving contracts wasnt his thing. So I brought in the contracts and programmed the flash animations, while he did the whole html and php. I am a skilled programmer as well but I could never kept his pace. He wrote code over night for which I had needed a month. And I did the tax as well :/. The estp had a billion friends but noone he could trust. So for a time I became someone to him, he could tell everything. And he used my abilities to be a listener a lot. Tho I am actually a bad listener but things seem to change when two very verbally extroverted people clash in that regards.

    So both very formal very businesslike relationships. More than that I rarely get with Ni/Se folks. Especially not with Te/Fi people. of them all I can talk best with ENTJs but they are a mystery book to me always. The moment I deviate from speaking very clearly and start to speak in metaphors like I like to do, I loose all Se or Te folks in the conversation. In that moments you can really see the difference of functions. So be glad I have drunken wine today, otherwise I wouldnt speak so clearly
    Oh woah, I see.

    There seems to be a lot of Se/Ni people in high school. Oh okay, I see. He seems like a hard worker.

    I read in the ESTP profile at personality page that they have few friends that are truly supportive of them. That's nice of you to do, how did you guys meet?

    I've meet very few Ni/Se users. One is an ENFJ close friend while the other's an INTJ who's rather arrogant and rude. Lol, I see. What kind of metaphors do you use?

  9. #19
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    ISTP rebels resist the most making them more intelligent than any of us since they are not trapped in the matrix!

  10. #20
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    My family is polite and my mother was always good about explaining why she wanted me to do things. I was generally passive and compliant unless someone I didn't respect tried to pull rank on me and bossed me around rudely instead of asking politely. I tend to lose all sense of self-preservation when that kind of thing happens and will fight it for all I'm worth.

    That said, I did not always do what I was told. I am lazy and forgetful. However, if I was told *not* to do something, I DID NOT DO IT. Even if I disagreed with the prohibition. Even if I thought it was stupid. If the person had a legitimate right (in my mind) to tell me not to do something, I obeyed.

    My husband is an INTP and is pretty similar. My four kids, IXTJ, XFXP, XXTJ, and IXTX seem to be the same way. Or else they are really sneaky. I'm not ruling that out.
    What sort of people would that be?

    How's it like raising xxTJ children?

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