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  1. #21
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Fi neither cares about people nor doesn't care about people. It's a tool to use. What the Fi user fills it up with is up to the individual, simply put the Fi helps the user craft a system of values to live by (it has many nuances and is a very refined system, the specification of the values are extremely, extremely precise) and whilst it is inflexible with value violation it is flexible about what those values are. Fi users can change what they find of value, if something goes through the Fi (I picture it as something resembling a factory assembly line & quality control system myself ) and the Fi determines it is "right" at the end a new value is adopted or a new point of view is accepted and valued (become true to the individual's beliefs.) Previous values can become redundant in the same manner (and completely dismissed without a second thought) if the Fi determines the held value is no longer "right" or true to the person. Fi users are resistant to social beliefs because Fi insists an external moral or ethical value go through it first and be approved rather than accepted immediately without any scrutiny. I wouldn't know how else to explain it. I guess its the same as Fe - just a tool which is then filled up by environmental ethics the Fe user is exposed to. Fe users would adopt same/similar values as their environment and the Fe would process and judge as "right" or "wrong" based on this criteria.

    Fi can be used to justify criminal behaviour if the Fi cannot determine the actions of the individual to be "wrong" however it works both ways. Fe can adopt a moral position which could be considered immoral or even criminal whilst an Fi user can stand against it, accusing the Fe users of justifying criminal behaviour simply because its the social norm. As for the "dark side" then yes I admit that exists. My Fi has made me want to get revenge or punish people in the past sometimes for purely sadistic reasons because the Fi says that is what I truly desire to do. But then again can't Fe users manipulate and backstab too?
    This is a really good description.

    I think Fe could commit a crime or do something really crazy too. Like I think both could join cults. Fi because it's checked with it's value system and the beliefs of the cult are the same as Fi. Where it's the other way around for Fe...it's like the beliefs of Fe are right (to the Fe) because "everyone else is doing it" (everyone else meaning: usually highly respected and loved people that have already been predetermined by the Fe). So they both have thier advantages and disadvantages.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  2. #22
    Junior Member Musiqientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    This is a really good description.

    I think Fe could commit a crime or do something really crazy too. Like I think both could join cults. Fi because it's checked with it's value system and the beliefs of the cult are the same as Fi. Where it's the other way around for Fe...it's like the beliefs of Fe are right (to the Fe) because "everyone else is doing it" (everyone else meaning: usually highly respected and loved people that have already been predetermined by the Fe). So they both have thier advantages and disadvantages.
    Yes I agree with the post above as well. I'm sure anybody could justify something crazy, there just seems to be something about it that fits well with Fi. Not necessarily criminal behavior, just an example.

  3. #23
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musiqientist View Post
    Yes I agree with the post above as well. I'm sure anybody could justify something crazy, there just seems to be something about it that fits well with Fi. Not necessarily criminal behavior, just an example.
    I actually think that it could be most likely to go jail too. Fi when not expressed properly can hold on to things, and just suppress things so much that it can come up out of nowhere and control your life.It is Revengful, unforgiving, victimizes itself, places blame on others extremely easily, does not take responsibility...and that mixed with an indulgent Se ...Fi can definately make you go to jail lol. I'm speaking from experience. My older sister is an ISFP...a very unhealthy one at that...she has been to jail already and may be going back again this year if she keeps stealing like she does. lol so first hand...having two FP's in the family and me being TJ...I know Fi can make someone be a criminal ....the only thing I never agreed with my dad about is revenge...it's a terrible cycle i would never want to start.

    I also am starting to feel the "weight" of Fi myself because of supressing it for so long. I have irrational blame games in my head all the time now a days...and I'm starting to be unforgiving of people as well.

    And then Fi has a way of saying "it's ok to steal this. Cause it's a big corporation, it's not like it's my friends I'm stealing from" <---word for word explaination from my isfp bf...hope he never gets caught...lol<---Fi can be crazy sorta like the whole Robin Hood thing...is it really right or wrong? depends who you ask, also depends how much your Fi can negogiate with your morals.

    I guess as long as you are Fe in your own culture it's fine...but if you do something that your Fe thinks is the norm somewhere else...u could accidentally go to jail??? lol no clue ha ha I'm just guessing here. Maybe they act out anger? Not sure how Fe can be a criminal...Doing drugs, giving into peer pressure?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  4. #24
    Xena's boyfriend Bardsandwarriors's Avatar
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    I would guess Fe can easily be a criminal when the society or clique they are in is criminal. Eg. the politicians scandals in the UK now, with expenses fiddles and p*phile rings. Once they are in a closed subculture, that is their world. Then it is up to the Fe's outside, and the Fi's inside that subculture, to stand up to it.
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  5. #25
    Xena's boyfriend Bardsandwarriors's Avatar
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    Fe can also be exclusive and snobby towards people who don't fit the norm. This can make them cause trouble, often in sneaky ways, towards minorities. Particularly if their friends have a similar outlook.
    Status: was , then , now
    Neutral good Fi-ENFp 4w3 sp/so 479 gentle spirit, 50yo male. Travels the land seeking a good sig line.

  6. #26
    Junior Member Musiqientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardsandwarriors View Post
    Fe can also be exclusive and snobby towards people who don't fit the norm. This can make them cause trouble, often in sneaky ways, towards minorities. Particularly if their friends have a similar outlook.
    I very much agree. This is what I find unnerving some of the one's I've encountered. Then again that probably has to do with something else more so than the topic at hand.

  7. #27
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardsandwarriors View Post
    I would guess Fe can easily be a criminal when the society or clique they are in is criminal. Eg. the politicians scandals in the UK now, with expenses fiddles and p*phile rings. Once they are in a closed subculture, that is their world. Then it is up to the Fe's outside, and the Fi's inside that subculture, to stand up to it.
    I somewhat agree although this implies that Fe cannot stand up to something from within. Fe is more than just the current group, it is all groups that have left a mark or at least judged as being useful enough to leave a mark and depending upon the negative or positive influences in the Fe users life....it can mean taking either the best or the worst values from those around you.

    But they have minds, they can choose which values to pick and which to leave. Fe is not merely a vacuum of it's surroundings, although to an Fi user bullied on the fringe of those stupid social groupings, it can certainly seem that way.

    Fe at it's most extreme levels could easily be a nasty delusion though; in that the individual might go along with a questionable situation because it wants to preserve the harmony...and even worse may end becoming part of that group as you outlined.

    Of course on the other side Fi at it's most extreme can justify anything and everything at a personal level. Especially concerning justice and fairness.
    Since those are filtered through an extremely subjective, individual and above all dangerously black and white perspective, (once again in the extreme), reason is lost to the individual.

    Of course reason is lost to Fe as well when both are of these negative natures.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I somewhat agree although this implies that Fe cannot stand up to something from within. Fe is more than just the current group, it is all groups that have left a mark or at least judged as being useful enough to leave a mark and depending upon the negative or positive influences in the Fe users life....it can mean taking either the best or the worst values from those around you.
    That sounds more like a combination of Pi and Fe than just the Fe function on its own.

  9. #29
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    Fi is subjecting experience to held beliefs.

    Fe is objecting experience to held beliefs.

    Fi is thinking "I love laughing, we should run through the store having fun."

    Fe is thinking "People hate disruptive people - though it would make me happy, I would likely put people off."

  10. #30
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    That sounds more like a combination of Pi and Fe than just the Fe function on its own.
    I see your point, by definition. However no function is ever on it's own.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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