• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Integrating the Inferior

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I've been focusing on working with some of my issues with inferior Fi as of late. I am curious how others have gone about integrating their inferior function, and what degree of success they might have had. A couple of questions:

How does your inferior function manifest itself? What personal issues do you relate to it, and what have you done to better integrate your use and expression of this function? How successful have you been?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Fi!!! :solidarity: :cheers:
How does your inferior function manifest itself?
I can't even count the ways!! Here are the ones that pop into my head right away:
- Needing to be "me" at all times
- Not tolerating inauthentic behavior/things
- Irritation with, and lack of understanding of, people who shape their entire being around their goals (hence my annoyance with all the career/money-driven overachieving Threes at my university)
What personal issues do you relate to it
My tendency to either blow up or shut down, under stress. My tendency to rely exclusively on myself when times get rough, and forget that other people exist. The fact that I seem very open but am extremely private about certain topics to the point that I have literally talked to no one about them, and may never do so.
what have you done to better integrate your use and expression of this function? How successful have you been?
I've found over the years that my Fi has a very important, practical purpose: helping me process my feelings when life takes a turn for the worse. It helps me remain immersed in feeling without being overwhelmed by it -- like a man in a spacesuit, I guess -- which helps me remain level-headed as I try to sort through the events prior and the emotions that resulted from them. Those feelings could cause complete chaos, but when I let my Fi do its work, and I let myself be completely engulfed in it, I found that it actually worked quite nicely together with Te to create structure in my recovery process.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Integrate it into what? Conscious processes?

I conceptualize its impact, and in theory thereby draw it out of the shadows. Since for me the inferior is an in-the-moment process I rely on in-the-moment revelation based around prior conceptualization (or on projecting forward into conceived moments). These revelations will be of the form "Ah ha, I'm reacting badly to this because....".

That's to say, I get at the inferior by invoking the superior. After that, I can from time to time actually invoke the inferior, usually with all sorts of learned caveats and precautions.

I then ascend directly into heaven.
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Integrate it into what? Conscious processes?

Hmm. Sort of. For me, Te and Fi represent two very distinct modes of being that are frequently at odds with one another. I feel like my problem is that I spend a lot of time bouncing between these two poles, and am trying to find common ground between them such that there can be at least some harmony between them. The kind of compartmentalized, either/or strategy that I've had up until now is simply not working for me anymore. My Te-side will have put into place structures and stability, and the Fi-side just rebels because it wasn't included from the outset. These little inferior function eruptions have caused problems for me, and are something I'm trying to work on.

I conceptualize its impact, and in theory thereby draw it out of the shadows. Since for me the inferior is an in-the-moment process I rely on in-the-moment revelation based around prior conceptualization (or on projecting forward into conceived moments). These revelations will be of the form "Ah ha, I'm reacting badly to this because....".

That's to say, I get at the inferior by invoking the superior. After that, I can from time to time actually invoke the inferior, usually with all sorts of learned caveats and precautions.

I always felt that perceiver dominants had it a bit easier in this area because it's more apparent how Pe feeds into Pi and vice versa. But then I remember that ya'll can identify just as fixedly with your perceptions as we do with our ability to make decisions about them.

Btw, not to call you out or anything, but it seems like cheating to "Ni" your way to Se. I tried to imagine "Te-ing" my way to Fi, and what I came up with was something of an abomination, I think. It just seems wrong to access a function by that which extinguishes it. Then again, I could be completely misunderstanding what you're saying here.

I then ascend directly into heaven.

:laugh:
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
I think that no matter what type you are, there's going to be sort of a fearful impression of what the inferior produces. Fearful, as in : "this is not what I want, this is what I want to avoid, etc. etc." For me, the issue is about power - I rarely want it, and I rarely want it imposed on me. "Power", in this case, is a very crude impression of the organizing nature of Te. When I feel that it is imposed on me, I either shut down or explode; in both cases I forgo my own accountability. The weirdness about it is that this is contrary to the insistence of remaining true to myself. In reality, what I often try to remain true to is an image that I naval gaze about to the point of forgetting how to get things done. Being true to oneself, imo, is all about recognizing one's actions. For me, this recognition can only come from seeing how much power I truly possess in the ability to resist power itself. However, there is no magical incantation one can perform. "Performing" integration induces an entirely new experience, psychological in nature, void of vices. Vices, such as the dormant satisfaction of expecting other forces of power to cease.
 
W

WALMART

Guest
I understand Te, but Fe always overrules it. I got fired mostly in part for this reason. I simply could not bring myself to coordinate such an authoritarian environment, which apparently is what impresses Big Whigs. I need moar Te.


I was getting fairly good at it, through practice. I suppose conscious practice is what'll do it. Hm, but a managing position is a position where improvement can be noticeably 'felt'. Are there any activities that can develop other functions so readily? Nothing worthwhile, I would suspect.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Hmm. Sort of. For me, Te and Fi represent two very distinct modes of being that are frequently at odds at one another. I feel like my problem is that I spend a lot of time bouncing between these two poles, and am trying to find common ground between them such that there can be at least some harmony between them. The kind of compartmentalized, either/or strategy that I've had up until now is simply not working for me anymore. My Te-side will have put into place structures and stability, and the Fi-side just rebels because it wasn't included from the outset. These little inferior function eruptions have caused problems for me, and are something I'm trying to work on.
One thing I've learned through talking with my NFP friends and comparing myself to them, is that as compartmentalized as Te and Fi can feel to me, oftentimes that's an illusion created by Te's tendency to deny feeling. My Te operates under particular concepts of what "should" and "should not" be done, but if you ask me enough questions about why I do things, i.e. if you dig deep enough, it's all going to be Fi underneath. (I would call that Te-ing my way to Fi.) The hard outside is rational, but the soft inside is as irrational as you can get. In a way, I feel that Fi is the foundation for everything I do, and Te is its guardian, the soldier assigned to protect it.
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
One thing I've learned through talking with my NFP friends and comparing myself to them, is that as compartmentalized as Te and Fi can feel to me, oftentimes that's an illusion created by Te's tendency to deny feeling. My Te operates under particular concepts of what "should" and "should not" be done, but if you ask me enough questions about why I do things, i.e. if you dig deep enough, it's all going to be Fi underneath. (I would call that Te-ing my way to Fi.) The hard outside is rational, but the soft inside is as irrational as you can get. In a way, I feel that Fi is the foundation for everything I do, and Te is its guardian, the soldier assigned to protect it.

It's funny that I've thought about these things in the past in almost these exact terms, especially the bolded. You also really neatly captured the more compartmentalized mindset that I'm ready to move forward from. I'm aiming for a convergence of what had up until now been "private" and "public" selves, and in doing so truly honor who I am and what I'm about.

You bring up an interesting point, though, about the veil of objectivity that Te likes to cast. But I have no doubts that the Te and Fi "halves" of myself are equally valid in their respective viewpoints. In fact, as I was saying to Ginkgo in a VM my desire to integrate the Fi half is because it seems so much freer, and lives in a world that's so much richer than that which my Te-guided self will allow for. I just want the meaning and possibility and fullness that this sorta inner reconciliation seems to have the potential to create.
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
6,048
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Integrate it into what? Conscious processes?

I conceptualize its impact, and in theory thereby draw it out of the shadows.

This is how I regard it as well. I buy into the theory that people tend to either prioritize a subjective judgment of T or F (for lack of a better way to say it: they either need things to logistically stack up cleanly and make sense or to…..’feel right’?)- and this is happening whether there’s an effort to ‘develop’ that particular ‘cognitive function’ or not. When a person makes an effort to be aware/conscious of this process (conceptualizing its impact), then they can be aware of why they believe what they believe, and it becomes easier to recognize when we are wrong. eta: it seems more fitting to me to say 'develop awareness of' (or 'integrate conscious awareness of') than to say 'develop' or 'integrate'. (Though that may be nitpicking.)

For example, with NFJs I’ve known- I’ve seen a tendency to jump to conclusions about the meaning of another person’s actions or words. Stories (explanations of ‘why) sort of instantly unzip in our heads for why other people do or say what they say or do- and it takes conscious effort to realize we aren’t actually seeing why *they* said or did it….we’re seeing why *we* would say or do it (iow: what it would mean if we said or did it ourselves). The benefit of pulling Ti ‘out of the shadows’ for NFJs is we can be aware that the way we make sense of the world isn’t necessarily because what we’re gleaming is the irrefutable truth about other people so much as it’s the truth about what it would mean if we were the ones saying or doing it. The less in touch an FJ is with the extent to which the way Ti ‘makes sense’ of others’ behavior according to our own limited experience of the world, the more we impulsively believe the first story (or ‘apparent causation’) that pops into our head is ‘clearly’ the truth.

It seems to me- as an observer- like what TJs have to gain from pulling Fi ‘out of the shadows’ is realizing the influence Fi has over ‘what seems right/correct’. I’ve noticed some NTJs can actually get very emo in defending their position- wholly believing they’re being ‘objective’, when to anyone witnessing their reaction/behavior, their position seems anything but ‘objective’. They can be unreasonable and impulsively argue their position is right in the face of contrary evidence- it’s like there’s some irrational subjective core holding their position firmly in place which is apparent to everyone but themselves and any/all other positions are ‘offensive’ to them by virtue of simply being different. The less a TJ realizes there’s some irrational core attaching them to ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ (or ‘correct’ and ‘incorrect’?), the more they’ll be senselessly and impulsively ‘offended’ by anyone else having a different point of view? [Again- this is just what it looks like to me as an observer of it.]

My point being, the inferior function is there whether it gets ‘developed’ or not- but making oneself aware of how it informs our judgment opens up possibilities that we wouldn’t otherwise investigate because we’d just impulsively assume the initial impression is correct.
 

Nicki

Retired
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
1,505
One thing I've learned through talking with my NFP friends and comparing myself to them, is that as compartmentalized as Te and Fi can feel to me, oftentimes that's an illusion created by Te's tendency to deny feeling. My Te operates under particular concepts of what "should" and "should not" be done, but if you ask me enough questions about why I do things, i.e. if you dig deep enough, it's all going to be Fi underneath. (I would call that Te-ing my way to Fi.) The hard outside is rational, but the soft inside is as irrational as you can get. In a way, I feel that Fi is the foundation for everything I do, and Te is its guardian, the soldier assigned to protect it.

This completely applies to me too. Very interesting way of putting it into words.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
This completely applies to me too. Very interesting way of putting it into words.
It's funny that I've thought about these things in the past in almost these exact terms, especially the bolded.
:yesss: Validation!
You also really neatly captured the more compartmentalized mindset that I'm ready to move forward from. I'm aiming for a convergence of what had up until now been "private" and "public" selves, and in doing so truly honor who I am and what I'm about.
:doh: And here I was, thinking that I was showing an example of how they integrate into one another. Obviously I should have thought harder before I posted.
You bring up an interesting point, though, about the veil of objectivity that Te likes to cast. But I have no doubts that the Te and Fi "halves" of myself are equally valid in their respective viewpoints. In fact, as I was saying to Ginkgo in a VM my desire to integrate the Fi half is because it seems so much freer, and lives in a world that's so much richer than that which my Te-guided self will allow for. I just want the meaning and possibility and fullness that this sorta inner reconciliation seems to have the potential to create.
I think that Z Buck McFate has some really good insight into that, here:
It seems to me- as an observer- like what TJs have to gain from pulling Fi ‘out of the shadows’ is realizing the influence Fi has over ‘what seems right/correct’. I’ve noticed some NTJs can actually get very emo in defending their position- wholly believing they’re being ‘objective’, when to anyone witnessing their reaction/behavior, their position seems anything but ‘objective’. They can be unreasonable and impulsively argue their position is right in the face of contrary evidence- it’s like there’s some irrational subjective core holding their position firmly in place which is apparent to everyone but themselves and any/all other positions are ‘offensive’ to them by virtue of simply being different. The less a TJ realizes there’s some irrational core attaching them to ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ (or ‘correct’ and ‘incorrect’?), the more they’ll be senselessly and impulsively ‘offended’ by anyone else having a different point of view? [Again- this is just what it looks like to me as an observer of it.]

My point being, the inferior function is there whether it gets ‘developed’ or not- but making oneself aware of how it informs our judgment opens up possibilities that we wouldn’t otherwise investigate because we’d just impulsively assume the initial impression is correct.
Her point on how Fi blends with Te was sort of what I was trying to get at in my previous post. Z Buck may be right that they were never really separate in the first place; the only separation was from Te wanting there to be separation. Dominant Te would like to think that Fi just gets in the way of its righteous goals, but how righteous would those goals be without Fi to add moral backing to them?

In terms of how you could "free" your Fi... This is something that I struggle a little bit with, too. Maybe just recognizing Fi when it shows up, accepting it, and encouraging it. Changing your attitude towards it, learning from the FPs in your life; they have a degree of acceptance of their Fi that I try to emulate, with varying degrees of success.

In short: you're a softy. Embrace your softy tendencies! :hug:
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Hmm. Sort of. For me, Te and Fi represent two very distinct modes of being that are frequently at odds with one another. I feel like my problem is that I spend a lot of time bouncing between these two poles, and am trying to find common ground between them such that there can be at least some harmony between them. The kind of compartmentalized, either/or strategy that I've had up until now is simply not working for me anymore. My Te-side will have put into place structures and stability, and the Fi-side just rebels because it wasn't included from the outset. These little inferior function eruptions have caused problems for me, and are something I'm trying to work on.

*ahem*

The decision to work on these things reeks--REEKS!--of Fi. I don't know why this should be true, or even if it truly is, and I don't know how to pinpoint the F elements either. But, a thought...

I always felt that perceiver dominants had it a bit easier in this area because it's more apparent how Pe feeds into Pi and vice versa. But then I remember that ya'll can identify just as fixedly with your perceptions as we do with our ability to make decisions about them.

*If* a dominant perceiver's method really is to conceptualize the impact of the inferior, perhaps the dominant thinker's is to stipulate an impact. In the terms of extroverted thinking the stipulation might sound something like, "Yo, so it turns out people make decisions for all sorts of reasons, and some of them subjective, but whether logical or felt, these decisions are part of the environment now!" It'd make sense then as an extroverted thinker to start an investigation. Maybe squeeze some feelers and see what comes out. The idea then is not to mimic them. The stipulation about decisions in the environment applies to your own decisions too. So, adding together what you've seen others do (and asked questions about to learn "the truth") and comparing it with what you know of your own states and events, you might start seeing where you differ and where you're the same, and maybe invent your own metric. Voila, conscious Fi.

I don't know if this actually works. In theory it's a process of identifying your Fi by identifying your place in the environment under the stipulation that some parts of the environment are generated from inside individuals. Sounds a bit self help-y, I guess. Still, it's potentially less disgusting than just having feelings.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
One thing I've learned through talking with my NFP friends and comparing myself to them, is that as compartmentalized as Te and Fi can feel to me, oftentimes that's an illusion created by Te's tendency to deny feeling. My Te operates under particular concepts of what "should" and "should not" be done, but if you ask me enough questions about why I do things, i.e. if you dig deep enough, it's all going to be Fi underneath. (I would call that Te-ing my way to Fi.) The hard outside is rational, but the soft inside is as irrational as you can get. In a way, I feel that Fi is the foundation for everything I do, and Te is its guardian, the soldier assigned to protect it.

I like that and would say my Ti is used ALOT to defend my Fe and that I am heavily driven by Fe. But my Fe is alot more focused then a Dominant Fe would be, I am not all "everyone" based, my Fe is very personalized. Much more focused on a very small group then a huge crowd. To the world I look like one person, but to one person I look like the world :shrug: Again, that previous sentence was probably my Ti in support of Inferior Fe.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
I've been focusing on working with some of my issues with inferior Fi as of late. I am curious how others have gone about integrating their inferior function, and what degree of success they might have had. A couple of questions:

How does your inferior function manifest itself? What personal issues do you relate to it, and what have you done to better integrate your use and expression of this function? How successful have you been?


Ok, after talking to you ad infinitum about this subject... I have discovered that I am afraid of my inferior function of Te. I hate the idea of influencing anything. I am not sure if this is because it's my inferior or being [MENTION=8595]Zang[/MENTION] identified me as a "delta" in his system. (Maybe my dear AUM [MENTION=9627]Chawie[/MENTION] can give some much needed insight into this thread. :tea: ) Delta meaning that I simply walk around the landscape of life without affecting anything. And those pesky Je-functions are sort of the opposite of this. :whistling:

It works best when I have an identified goal and I look at how best to achieve this goal. I mainly have to use this at work when I have to create protocol systems for my employees and I tend to get rather irritated when they deviate from this pattern.

It's definitely something I need help with, however, as it doesn't come naturally to me.

Most of the time I feel like I am doing brain surgery wearing mittens and rollarskates. Oh, and I'm drunk.

The End.
 

Redbone

Orisha
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
One thing I've learned through talking with my NFP friends and comparing myself to them, is that as compartmentalized as Te and Fi can feel to me, oftentimes that's an illusion created by Te's tendency to deny feeling. My Te operates under particular concepts of what "should" and "should not" be done, but if you ask me enough questions about why I do things, i.e. if you dig deep enough, it's all going to be Fi underneath. (I would call that Te-ing my way to Fi.) The hard outside is rational, but the soft inside is as irrational as you can get. In a way, I feel that Fi is the foundation for everything I do, and Te is its guardian, the soldier assigned to protect it.

This! I very much feel like the bolded.

I have wondered about this. I got into some very intense discussions with my ESTJ and it dawned upon me that he was doing what you described above. I've known him for a very long time but it is just recently that he has been very open and expressing the motivations behind his actions. It's pretty incredible to see.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
This! I very much feel like this.
Your Ti guards your Fe? :huh:
Would you elaborate on this for me? I'm curious as to how that works for you in practice.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
One thing I've learned through talking with my NFP friends and comparing myself to them, is that as compartmentalized as Te and Fi can feel to me, oftentimes that's an illusion created by Te's tendency to deny feeling. My Te operates under particular concepts of what "should" and "should not" be done, but if you ask me enough questions about why I do things, i.e. if you dig deep enough, it's all going to be Fi underneath. (I would call that Te-ing my way to Fi.) The hard outside is rational, but the soft inside is as irrational as you can get. In a way, I feel that Fi is the foundation for everything I do, and Te is its guardian, the soldier assigned to protect it.

Because your wonderful post hasn't been quoted enough, I am jumping on the "praise EJCC" bandwagon.

I relate to this a lot.
 

Redbone

Orisha
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Your Ti guards your Fe? :huh:
Would you elaborate on this for me? I'm curious as to how that works for you in practice.

I don't know. I only know I can identify with what you said. I'm old and typing is a mess for me. INTP? Maybe.

I'm not sure if I can explain it well. It wasn't until recently that I realized how much of what I did was fueled by certain beliefs (a kindly INFP pointed this out to me) or internal rules that I have gathered over the years. Family deaths, divorce, and being at odds with others brought out a lot of...aggressiveness in me. It put me in a positions where instead of cruising, I've had to fight for what I believe in.

(I know [MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] is going to see this!)

I don't know if this is making any sense! :doh: I shouldn't be on here when I'm trying to study blood dyscrasias. :(
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Delta meaning that I simply walk around the landscape of life without affecting anything. And those pesky Je-functions are sort of the opposite of this. :whistling:
There's a reason why the redneck Te motto is "Git R Done"! :cheese:
It works best when I have an identified goal and I look at how best to achieve this goal. I mainly have to use this at work when I have to create protocol systems for my employees and I tend to get rather irritated when they deviate from this pattern.

It's definitely something I need help with, however, as it doesn't come naturally to me.
@ the bolded, that's because Te-doms use their Te that way. IME, skillful Te use requires goals, or else the function can't really be used constructively. That's how I can tell angry NFPs from angry STJs; the STJs are usually ranting with a goal in mind, or ranting about a goal, whereas the NFPs seem to just be trying to vent it and get it out of their system.

So I guess integrated use of inferior Te would mean taking deep breaths when you're upset and Making A Plan. (Hence my Visitor Message about "well-aimed volcanoes". :) )
Most of the time I feel like I am doing brain surgery wearing mittens and rollarskates. Oh, and I'm drunk.
^That's how I feel about Fi. :laugh: Probably an inferior function thing.
Because your wonderful post hasn't been quoted enough, I am jumping on the "praise EJCC" bandwagon.

I relate to this a lot.
Aw, shucks! :blush: Thanks, friend!
 
Top