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  1. #71
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post


    and if you dont go against the dom and just try to work the inferior through dom, it will look like an unhealthy version of inferior function in opposite attitude
    You mean I could slip right off the edge and start acting like a *shudder* Fe-dom?

    Say it ain't so, doc!

    On the other hand, ENFJ girls do seem to have more fun. If I only I could be sure the grass were actually greener...
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  2. #72
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    You mean I could slip right off the edge and start acting like a *shudder* Fe-dom?

    Say it ain't so, doc!

    On the other hand, ENFJ girls do seem to have more fun. If I only I could be sure the grass were actually greener...
    not Fe dom, just an ENTJ with illusionary unhealthy Fe, which isnt really Fe, but FiTe
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #73
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    not Fe dom, just an ENTJ with illusionary unhealthy Fe, which isnt really Fe, but FiTe
    ha ha...that's me! dammit

    I was tryin to explain this to someone actually a couple months ago...and I think it was an INTP...my loss for words did not help me there HA HA. But thanks for wording it to make sense

    People mistake my type all the time cause of this FiTe thing looking like an Fe thing. :/


    So what I am looking for a conclusion to is, if you sorta have to level up?...like in an video game...but lets say we replace magic with Ni and strength with Se(or whatever you want)...If I level those up...does that mean Fi levels up too? or is it just one function in particular I should level up?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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  4. #74
    garbage
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    Yo, there's some interesting crap here, and I'll respond when I'm back and around a computer. The phone ain't quite gonna cut it.

  5. #75
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Yo, there's some interesting crap here, and I'll respond when I'm back and around a computer. The phone ain't quite gonna cut it.
    ISTJ
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #76
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Se(t)*dt + introversion(t) = Ni




    d/dt * Ni(t) + extroversion(t) = Se


    And apply to the others. I'm going to rep myself for this. Thanks myself. Oh, hi myself.

  7. #77
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post


    and if you dont go against the dom and just try to work the inferior through dom, it will look like an unhealthy version of inferior function in opposite attitude
    This makes a lot of sense! A lot of people have thought I was an ENFJ when instead I was just an unhealthy ENTJ.

  8. #78
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    How can you know what the motivation is? How can you know that you're not just shutting down and refusing to see something from another perspective? Isn't that a more forceful exercise of control?

    Are you shitting me? What do you mean by “a more forceful exercise of control”? Because it sounds like you’re saying that refusing to keep participating in a conversation which has basically turned into another person’s monologue is somehow exercising forceful control? Ideally both parties have control over their own participation and only their own participation- if one person ducks out because the interaction is no longer valuable enough to expend the energy or time, that’s their right. It’s like a consumer vote.

    And I don’t have to know what someone’s motivation is to know when I don’t feel listened to. If I were to have this problem with most people who cross my path, it would be worthwhile to investigate if ‘not feeling listened to’ is an error of my own perception.


    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    A bunch of Jung
    Actually this applies quite well to me. During particularly stressful times I definitely get bent out of shape when things in my external environment aren’t where they’re supposed to be. I’m really loathe to impose this on others though and generally need my own space which no one ever, ever touches- and then the rest of the house is anything goes. I absolutely need the few things I’m adamant about to be where I expect them to be, though, and I can totally relate to the ‘What kind of God puts cupboards right here?!’.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    With ENTPs we are talking about inferior Si. If this is an unconscious reaction (as opposed to a deliberate ploy), I guess it's possible that they register your pain as something to defend themselves against. This time we are dealing with not so much projection as introjection - which makes sense, because the inferior function in this case is introverted. Inferior functions essentially lead us to misattribute the cause of a problem or origin of an affect. This happens because we are conscious of the effect but unable to discern the origin - precisely because it originates in the part of our psyche we have disowned. Therefore, we wrongly determine that an internal conflict originates in a hostile environment, or conversely, we internalize a conflict that is rightly external. I have seen this effect of inferior Si in ENFPs too, who are, much of the time, oblivious to environmental cues that would bug / discomfort Sensors, but who can become withdrawn and even physically ill as a result of internalizing external conflict.
    Well said. I’m still not entirely sure I buy into a strict theory about only certain functions playing a role according to the standard type hierarchy, because there’s just too much crossover here and there in practice. But I like the way you phrased the bolded.

    It's kind of funny how you've just described something akin to inferior Se...
    Not really- as I experience it and the Jung description you posted states- the nit-pickiness is really more about needing the physical, objective environment around us a certain way. Inferior Se isn’t about nit-picking concepts.

    Well, I know what my own pitfalls are, and mistaking accuracy for something else is not one of them. Nor is this something I can say is true of other NTPs. They have an unparalled ability to cut through all the extraneous crap and get to the heart of a problem.
    Yes, it’s totally and completely available for someone to think this about themselves.

    How can you have more access to stored information, if you tend to close down an avenue of exploration after a negative experience?
    The ‘stored information’ is internal. Introverted perception focuses on the internal landscape- that’s where we go to explore when we ‘shut down’. We take what’s bothering us there and compare it to…..stuff, and look at it from all possible angles.

    Drawing an analogy between the unequivocally harmful effects of touching a scalding pan and communicating with an NTP seems rather ... extreme. How very inferior Se of you though...
    Actually, no (and I'm not hair-spliiting). It's ad hominem if you dismiss it because of who made it (or the reason you think they made it) rather than objectively assessing the argument on its own merits.
    In fact, in this case, (especially in light of your scalding pan analogy) it looks a lot like prejudice - you have had some negative interactions with NTPs, so you assume that NTPs argue in bad faith and feel that qualifies you to dismiss their arguments.

    If I were to dismiss someone’s opinion on the basis of them being NTP- yes, I’d consider that ad hominem. But to not give much weight to someone’s opinion because that particular person has proven to be more taxing than worthwhile time and time again?

    And I didn’t intend for that analogy to be about interacting with NTPs, per se (eta: personally I'd take more offense at being compared to a Soderbergh movie). I was trying to explain INJ pigheadedness (in contrast to what I experience as NP pigheadedness). We shut down access to certain avenues of incoming information where we’ve gleamed it isn’t worth the effort. INTJ ‘pigeon-holing’, INFJ ‘doorslamming’, whatever. I used the scalding hot pan handle analogy because it’s a clear, tangible example that most people can easily relate to and see the value in- P or J- it’s just that Js do it on a bigger scale. Freedom for INJs is in that internal landscape and too much external chaos is a senseless distraction from the way we process information. It doesn’t look like pigheadedness from this point of view, is my point (cutting down on external stimuli actually opens up a lot of room to think and gives us more freedom)- just as the things NPs can be utterly reluctant about probably don’t look like pigheadedness from your point of view.

    I’m getting the impression this seems more emotionally charged for me than it is- this ‘frustration’. The only reason it keeps coming back up is because I’ve tried describing my own observations of how NTPs can be short-sighted- and every time you respond to what I write by suggesting it might ‘seem that way’ to me because of some INFJ shortcoming (projection, inferior Se, etc)- so I respond to clarify, but you just keep wanting to point out how it might only ‘seems that way’ to me. I’m just trying to point out that INTPs do have their own version of tunnel vision going on occasionally. But apparently the only way you can cope with hearing that someone has this opinion is to tell yourself it’s addle-minded INFJness that gives me this impression, because that’s what you keep coming back to. ( ) So I’ll just let it go.

    I actually like most INTPs. My dad is an INTP, and one of my favorite people ever (if also one of the most obstinate people I know). I’ve already said the *really* annoy manifestations (where it's to the point thatI can't handle interaction) aren't that common- like tyrannous oafishness in TJs or …batshit projection in FJs- it’s far more the exception than the rule.


    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I have heard this before, I think from Lenore. And I have looked into the auxilary function being the best to develop to achieve growth. It's still difficult for me to get a grasp on.
    Yes, according to Thomson, ‘developing’ the auxiliary is what balances out the E/I, and the E/I imbalance is what causes the distortion/’unconsciousness’ of the inferior. (I think. At any rate, that’s what I get from her too.)
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  9. #79
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Inferior is so mystifying.

  10. #80
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    @Kalach, this description that Salome posted pretty well encapsulates the Ti/Fe equivalent of Te-ing your way to Fi, and is exactly what I'm afraid of doing.
    Nonetheless....

    One aspect of extroverted thinking is the detection of an element of something is missing or misused, right? If one were to assess their own extroverted thinking in extroverted thinking terms, would not one from time to time come across elements of decision making that could only be accounted for as extroverted thinking by some whitewash of sorts where the thinker deliberately obscures what we'd otherwise know as a subjective element? This detection, if it ever actually works, would be using thinking to identify where a subjective element existed. You get to know the parameters. Maybe you bellow them at colleagues once in a while. But what you really have is the terms under which and where your own feeling can exist. And you can go away by yourself for, I'm not kidding, 30 seconds or so a day and visit those elements.

    After all, if you're ever going to cede authority from extroverted thinking processes to some other competing process, you're going to have to make terms with an extroverted thinking consciousness, right?


    /might be making it all up
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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