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  1. #51
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I run from Te most of the time. I know I am an F, but overall I desire to be calm and collected and most of all under control emotionally. I may be all fluffy zingyness on the outside, but inside I operate best when my seas are calm and quiet and at peace. The problem is when something bothers my inner peace to the point where I have to express it somehow.
    I have started to see patterns similar to the one above.

    It's like the Fi-dom people are a softy on the outside and inside they're really just a badass...or if not a cook person...just an asshole on the inside.

    I feel like inferior Fi does the opposite. Where the outside is a badass/asshole and on the inside...turns out they're complete mush.

    I find Fi doms/aux to be cold sometimes.


    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    A lot of feelings (lowercase) don't get released except in periods of intense stress, when we'll blow up somehow -- and times of stress are when inferior Feeling (uppercase) is technically supposed to show itself. Inferior Feeling will pop up as the direct result of a stressor, but will always have incredibly strong feeling tied to it; one Te/Fi example (b/c I can't speak for Ti/Fe at all, here), is if you've been trying to get something done that you consider to be extremely important, and someone has been getting in your way. You can't understand why they're doing it. You get increasingly angry. Maintaining composure and staying on task -- i.e. using Te at your usual level of skill -- becomes more and more difficult. And then you finally blow up at them. Someone -- maybe the person at fault, maybe a friend -- get one or two minutes of intense rage, in the form of a rant that begins with a focus and gradually generalizes and deteriorates. Why in the hell is this person standing in the way of this project, they ought to know that it's the best option, I'm just trying to do the right thing and how can they be so blind, I've put in all this hard work and they fucking walk all over me, why does this always happen to me, why am I surrounded by idiots. And then, after the rant, they may become withdrawn, and the deterioration will continue internally: Maybe I'm not surrounded by idiots, maybe the idiot is me, I must have done something wrong but I'm too stupid to know what it is, oh god why do I fail at everything I do, there was this one time I failed, and then this other time, why do I ever get hired for anything, why does anyone like me.

    And then, once calmed down, the Te-dom may have this thought process: I hate feeling like that, I hate getting so upset and feeling so insecure, but I never feel like that except in massive amounts in situations like that, the rest of the time I feel fewer emotions and I feel them in moderation. So you start to associate those feelings with Feeling, because it's only under Feeling's influence that you recognize that they exist.

    So my question would be: how should one go about separating the two? Type descriptions of ExTJs and IxTPs say similar things about how they will not show much emotion except when under the influence of the inferior, so how should you distinguish feeling and Feeling when they're so intertwined?
    True story. This used to happen to me a lot in my past. I definately relate.

    My ISFJ friend explained his situation with "Thinking" as a little scary as well. At first it was only after a traumatic event that he had an extreme lack of emotion.

    This is a convo we had. He is a pretty mature person. He uses the hell outta his aux Fe.

    Me ENTJ: What I wanted to ask you is if you feel something the majority of the day...like throughout your day are you experiencing emotion all the time?...some of the time? or a little of the time? I'm probably little of the time...only when emotion is provoked do i feel somthing. But just now i have started to understand this "conciousness" that people are talking about and if you make yourself feel the right emotions then of course you're being concious...your choosing your state of being...conciousness is many other things but i'm only experimenting with the emotional one now...I'm not very good at it...it's like that "emoting" you talk about. I get it now So I guess the real question is are you emoting all the time...even when you're alone? I can only do it when i'm alone or with one other person..other wise too many distractions.


    ISFJ: I am ALWAYS EMOTING, alone, not alone, all day everyday....and get strange flashes of moments where I am not.(before it would need to be with a very strong or jarring or surprising or traumatic effect that I would switch into thinker, but now I can do it by desiring it and focusing on it) And I can play with this fun strange land, without emotion--or as I like to think of it, my thinker is coming online more and more, and as I stretch more into that land, where things aren't emotional...its strange, and very interesting, and very empowering. You must be doing the same thing from the other direction?


    ENTJ:yea that's pretty much right, I am an empty vessel. feeling nothing most of the time...or at least I was...It's like we are meeting in the middle jack I LOVE IT! but you have to promise me you wont forever stop feeling...it's really nice to just have an isfj friend...they are never assholes.



    -So to answer the question the only way I have been able to distinguish feeling and Feeling when they're so intertwined, is because I FORCE myself to conciously feel. But when it creeps up on me, I cannot tell if I'm using Fe because I'm blasting with emotion. Or just Te on crack trying to defend Fi. Or just Raw Fi. I have no idea how to distinguish in the grip if that's what you mean.
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  2. #52
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    F

    The knowledge and the structure.

    Which, among other things, will focus and channel feeling.


    Feeling, after all, in the sense of affect, is always feeling about. And Feeling, in the sense of judgment, constrains you as to how to be feeling about that.


    Feeling has structure.


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  3. #53
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    This is a great point and one im not going to deny I am quite guilty of. In fact there is some pretty damning evidence of me doing this on these forums.
    Yeah, I’ve probably come across this way myself. A problem I can have sometimes is that I’ll react in a snarky way because of it- while I’m processing whether or not the impression I’m getting is correct- and I won’t realize the snark is sorta bleeding through regardless. It’s only later after the negative affect has passed that I realized it influenced my behavior in any way, and it’s like “oh crap.” Unfortunately when I ‘intuit’ nasty or offensive intentions behind someone else’s words/actions- even while I’m in the thick of processing where that impression is coming from and feel completely uncertain about whether or not the negative feelings I’m experiencing are founded- the anger, hurt or whatever will be there regardless until I figure out how I misunderstood something. As much as I try not to give those feelings weight when they immediately surface, they’re there and sometimes they show. [This is why I’ve said many times before- as have other INFJs here- that it’s embarrassing to have those initial feelings showing and the least productive thing someone can do is point them out or bring attention to the fact that I’m feeling it and it’s showing. My priority and focus is pretty much exclusively on figuring out if the ‘story’ that’s causing those feelings is true, if it’s actually about something else, etc- NOT exactly what those feelings are. I’ll figure out what the feelings are later, after I figure out whether or not they’re warranted.]



    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I disagree. I see far more evidence of this in Infjs than Es. Perhaps because the Es greater facility with Fe moves them to be more understanding, accepting and (paradoxically?) less judgemental.
    I reckon this observation holds for all ExFJs - they tend to be warmer / more accepting than IxFJs.

    *******


    This is confusing because Ti-doms do not have inferior / unconscious Pi, they have inferior Je. Perhaps you are thinking of Pe-doms..
    My theorizing about the consequences of not being mindful/aware of the influence Ti has in NFJs…..if only an inferior function can have ‘unconscious influence’, but not the tertiary- then that in itself would suggest: not only is ‘unconscious Ti’ stronger in ENFJs than INFJs, but only ENFJs experience it and INFJs aren’t influenced by ‘unconscious Ti’ at all. [This is actually why I’d started that post with “Theoretically it’s supposed to be more an ENFJ thing…”.] It makes no sense to assert a tertiary can have unconscious influence on INFJs (indeed, to assert it has more influence on INFJs than on ENFJs) but then turn around and say that doesn’t apply to INTPs.

    In regard to INFJ/ENFJ- I’ve already stated that more often than not my experience of the ENFJs I’ve known is that they are calm and rational. The crazies are the exception. And I tried explaining my reasoning- maybe it was overlooked because I didn’t articulate it in a way that made sense- whenever an NJ leans towards being comfortable with reactivity and directly imposing their perception on the external world (where it seems like they truly can’t tell a difference between ‘this is what shared reality looks like to me’ and ‘this is what’s going on in shared reality’) then I’m inclined to think they’re more extraverted than introverted. At the very least, they’re more extraverted than I am because that kind of unquestioning certainty escapes me. And it seems to me like being Ni dominant just doesn’t allow it. We can dogmatically shut down and refuse to listen to anything further from certain people here and there when those individuals give us reason to doubt it’s worthwhile to put further effort into understanding their point of view- I’ll even allow that we can write people off based completely on projection…..but it’s not really INFJ terrain to aggressively impose our delusions on others. We shut down and withdraw instead. We split and chalk it up to ‘irreconcilable differences’. I like the way Kalach described inferior Se, I think it was in the ‘INTJ common issues thread’ (I looked just now, can’t find it and can’t be bothered to look harder- but it wasn’t quite “exaggerated fear for physical security”) and I think it applies to INFJs as well.

    And I can’t remember where I’ve read this, but I can remember reading that in ENFJs the inferior can show up as using ‘logic’ which isn’t rational (though they argue it is)- even Jung said something about ‘unconscious’ extraverted feelers using logic which is ‘infantile and archaic’ or something- point is, it’s like their connection to others takes priority over sounding insane or controlling. (I don’t suppose anybody else has read this or knows what I’m talking about? There was even a thread here about it, but I suck at searching for threads.) I'm not hating on ENFJs here, only the crazy ones with no self control (and I spread that disdain amongst all crazy people with no self control, regardless of type). The other ENFJs I know are really incredible people and the best listeners ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    The thing you find frustrating - the way we drift from one semi-solid state to another ("shape-shifting" -nice) trying them on for size - this is the only way for us to approximate certainty about anything. (And we never quite feel comfortable there). If we were a metal, we'd be mercury - liquid at room temperature, quickly responding to changes in atmospheric pressure, but not incapable of holding a crystalline form. You guys would be lead - all but impenetrable, and fucking hard to melt.
    Specifically the thing I find frustrating about Pe’ers is that you guys can argue something is black one minute, that it’s “the whole truth” about that thing…..then five minutes later (when the incentives have changed) argue “the whole truth” is that it’s white. It’s more than ‘approximate certainty’- it’s when it crosses the line into convenient ‘approximate certainty’ that it can become deplorable. The thing about dominant and auxiliary introverted perception is that it holds certain rigid templates up to information for quality control; but in lesser (and ‘unconscious’) forms it can inform someone’s judgment to make them gluttonously want to cling to brand new truths that’ll get them what they want in that moment. And the really dismissive “there’s obviously nothing more to see here” pushiness that comes with it is the ‘pigheadedness’ I alluded to. From a Ni dom point of view- when a person is inconsistent like this- it doesn’t look like “approximating certainty” in any authentic ‘search for truth’ kind of way so much as approximating the *appearance* of certainty with smoke and mirrors to satisfy self-serving ends. Not consciously of course, at least it’s not always conscious- it’s more like just impulsively arguing something because you can, impulsively chasing that magic Pe butterfly into the Land of Getting What You Immediately Want (be it some tangible advantage, simple ego strokes or whatever). The flaws in Pe’er reasoning are often as ‘obvious’ to us Pi’ers as the flaws in Je reasoning are ‘obvious’ to Ji’ers. Yes- it is worse in Pe doms (and especially so in e7), but it’s still there in Pe aux. In TPs it takes the form of incessant nitpicking, and in FPs it’s more like rationalizations.

    eta: So it isn't just that you guys are so mercurial that frustrates me, I actually consider it a blessing from the Ps I don't get mixed signals from because I'm so NOT mercurial myself that I find it a helpful influence. As soon as I sense a tendency for that shape-shiftyness to have self-serving ends though- I have a hard time giving anything they say much credit.
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  4. #54
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I take that back. Inner Feeling has structure. Outer Feeling refers to structure.

    Or at least, that's how these aspects of consciousness present.

    This brings us to a central mystery: how does extroverted judgment have content at all? Introverted judgment has structure by being the imprint of order over introverted perception. But extroverted judgment cannot be such an imprint over extroverted sensation... or can it? After all, extroverted anything mirrors what is there. Thus, extroverted judgment is a record of and a facility with the order found to inhere in extroverted sensations.

    The implication for integration of an introverted judging inferior (or possibly even a tertiary) is it lies in observing how that dominant extroverted judgment facility is conscious. It isn't conscious if it is mere record or mirror. So why is it conscious? In what aspect is it individual?

    ^ this is conceptualising.

    To actually think your way through to the existence of your own personalising aspects... well, observe that my conceptualising isn't pure. It involves thinking too.


    What if "integrating the inferior" is really better thought of as giving more conscious attention to matters auxiliary?
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  5. #55
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Uhhmm, nothing to add except that Feeling has fuck-all to do with experiencing raw positive/negative emotion. It's those common misconceptions that lead me to want to abandon the system altogether. Even Lenore and others refer to Fe as a rational function, along the lines of Te but with a different flavor.
    Inferior functions are not rational. Inferior Feeling is directly linked with unregulated and primitive emotion. It is because of this experience of Feeling that unreflective thinkers are inclined to assert that all feeling is irrational, rather than just their own experience of feeling. If you had read more closely instead of feeling the need to make an immediate defence of Feeling against an accusation of neuroticism (that was never made) you would have noticed this. Inferior Ti is irrational too.

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Think of it this way: consensus in the books is that the secondary function serves the dominant--that, say, in an INTJ, Thinking serves to flesh out the intuition. I imagine that we can infer that the inferior serves at least the dominant as well.
    We can make no such inference, since the Dom/aux are compatible, but the Dom/inf are not. They serve opposing agendas (which is why the inferior becomes inferior).

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    My theorizing about the consequences of not being mindful/aware of the influence Ti has in NFJs…..if only an inferior function can have ‘unconscious influence’, but not the tertiary- then that in itself would suggest: not only is ‘unconscious Ti’ stronger in ENFJs than INFJs, but only ENFJs experience it and INFJs aren’t influenced by ‘unconscious Ti’ at all. [This is actually why I’d started that post with “Theoretically it’s supposed to be more an ENFJ thing…”.] It makes no sense to assert a tertiary can have unconscious influence on INFJs (indeed, to assert it has more influence on INFJs than on ENFJs) but then turn around and say that doesn’t apply to INTPs.
    I see what you're saying, but I qualified my statement according to my own observations. In any event, it may not be inferior Ti that leads to these kinds of cognitive errors.

    I also did not say that it doesn't apply to Ti doms. I said that Ti-doms don't have inferior Pi. This is just fact - we don't. So the thing that winds you up about us isn't a manifestation of our inferior. It seems to be just your own dislike / misunderstanding of the nature of extroverted perception (which we consider a strength).

    I like the way Kalach described inferior Se, I think it was in the ‘INTJ common issues thread’ (I looked just now, can’t find it and can’t be bothered to look harder- but it wasn’t quite “exaggerated fear for physical security”) and I think it applies to INFJs as well.
    Here it is:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    . Inferior Se for instance manifests not rarely as exaggerated concerns for physical security.
    I guess you could "nitpick" about fears vs concerns....

    . In TPs it takes the form of incessant nitpicking, and in FPs it’s more like rationalizations.
    I don't see what nitpicking has to do with your accusations of intellectual flightiness, if I'm honest. When INTPs are accused of nitpicking, its usually because of our drive for precision and accuracy. This doesnt fit with your other observation- which suggests a more superficial engagement with a topic. There is obviously something that pisses you off, but you don't seem to be able to articulate it in terms which are consistent with my experience (of Pe doms/aux).

    As soon as I sense a tendency for that shape-shiftyness to have self-serving ends though- I have a hard time giving anything they say much credit.
    Yes, well you've already pointed out how this is a potential pitfall for your type. Perhaps this is a defence against having to consider new information after you have made a decision (something Js are notoriously reluctant to do) and rather than acknowledge that you are being pigheaded, it's easy to assassinate someone else's character/"self-serving" motivations. Pretty much the essence of an ad hominem argument, in fact.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I've been focusing on working with some of my issues with inferior Fi as of late. I am curious how others have gone about integrating their inferior function, and what degree of success they might have had. A couple of questions:

    How does your inferior function manifest itself? What personal issues do you relate to it, and what have you done to better integrate your use and expression of this function? How successful have you been?
    I'm very interested in this too. At least in developing feeling traits as I've seen then manifest by others.

  7. #57
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    Huh. Well, this is going to be as fun as drilling a 10-gauge titanium screw through my own hand, because the minutiae behind systems are boring and inconsequential as shit. But I'll play for a few posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Inferior functions are not rational.
    For those with inferior Fe and Te, this needs to be reconciled with the notion that Fe and Te are rational functions. How?
    Inferior Feeling is directly linked with unregulated and primitive emotion.
    In what way?
    If you had read more closely instead of feeling the need to make an immediate defence of Feeling against an accusation of neuroticism (that was never made) you would have noticed this. Inferior Ti is irrational too.
    Don't make this personal. All I'll say is that (a) I was explicitly asked to chime in with my perspective, and I don't care about defending some categorization in somesuch a system and (b) I noticed; I just thought that the idea was without merit.
    We can make no such inference, since the Dom/aux are compatible, but the Dom/inf are not. They serve opposing agendas (which is why the inferior becomes inferior).
    According to those who hold the notion that opposing functions (e.g Se/Ni, Te/Fi) work in conjunction with one another, this is outright false.

  8. #58
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I take that back. Inner Feeling has structure. Outer Feeling refers to structure.

    Or at least, that's how these aspects of consciousness present.

    This brings us to a central mystery: how does extroverted judgment have content at all? Introverted judgment has structure by being the imprint of order over introverted perception. But extroverted judgment cannot be such an imprint over extroverted sensation... or can it? After all, extroverted anything mirrors what is there. Thus, extroverted judgment is a record of and a facility with the order found to inhere in extroverted sensations.

    The implication for integration of an introverted judging inferior (or possibly even a tertiary) is it lies in observing how that dominant extroverted judgment facility is conscious. It isn't conscious if it is mere record or mirror. So why is it conscious? In what aspect is it individual?

    ^ this is conceptualising.

    To actually think your way through to the existence of your own personalising aspects... well, observe that my conceptualising isn't pure. It involves thinking too.


    What if "integrating the inferior" is really better thought of as giving more conscious attention to matters auxiliary?
    I’ve been having trouble conceptualizing how an extraverted function can have ‘unconscious influence’, and I think this explains the problem I was having. Because extraverted functions- while they may be internal processes, they’re more like internal constructs of external things (our subjective understanding of the object) and I’m at a bit of a loss as to how they could actively ‘unconsciously’ influence anything…..that if anything, it’s a matter of those constructs getting convoluted at the influence of introverted functions. Saying an extraverted function has an ‘unconscious’ influence is like blaming a crappy map for getting lost instead of blaming the crappy cartography (while being the cartographer). (Blaming Fe’er is blaming.)

    Okay I glimpsed how an extraverted function could possibly have an ‘unconscious’ influence there for a moment, but now it’s gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I don't see what nitpicking has to do with your accusations of intellectual flightiness, if I'm honest. When INTPs are accused of nitpicking, its usually because of our drive for precision and accuracy. This doesnt fit with your other observation- which suggests a more superficial engagement with a topic. There is obviously something that pisses you off, but you don't seem to be able to articulate it in terms which are consistent with my experience (of Pe doms/aux).
    The nit-picking can just be part of the smoke and mirrors if it's used to derail and control the conversation (and even control other people- though that latter is really more an ENP problem) rather than furthering the exchange of ideas. I believe you are the one who once said that an ENTP will hurt your feelings and then make you apologize to them (whoever said it, I agree and it’s a good example of ‘ENTP controlled by their own unconscious impulses’) . Much like ETJs are ruled by an irrational core- and the less they acknowledge this core, the more it controls their 'rational' outward judgment (making it look anything but rational)- NTP nit-picking can be geared to serving some hedonistic core. And the less they're willing to see it, the more control it has over 'what should be nit-picked'.

    I'm not saying this is something all NTPs do- just like not all TJs are ruled by some dogmatic irrational core and all FJs aren't ruled by batshit projection. I'm just saying that's what the NTP pitfall looks like: solipsistic meandering which is less about [thesis + antithesis = synthesis] exchanging ideas as it is [my thesis + here's why your antithesis isn't worth considering = something I'll call 'synthesis', which is basically just my own thesis again after I've used 'precision and accuracy' to disqualify anything you said that doesn't appeal to me personally]. That drive for precision and accuracy isn't automatically magically objective (void of subjective influence) any more than NFJ projection is automatically magically insightful. The more the subjective influence is identified and brought to awareness, the less it convolutes thinking.


    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Yes, well you've already pointed out how this is a potential pitfall for your type. Perhaps this is a defence against having to consider new information after you have made a decision (something Js are notoriously reluctant to do) and rather than acknowledge that you are being pigheaded, it's easy to assassinate someone else's character/"self-serving" motivations. Pretty much the essence of an ad hominem argument, in fact.

    Js have more access to stored information, particularly IxxJs, I think. And paying attention to the external world is taxing. I only need to touch a scalding hot pan handle once or twice to realize it's something to be avoided, or (on a lesser scale) watch a couple of Soderbergh movies to realize I don't get much out of Soderbergh movies. When I see indications that observations I've made should be modified- e.g. if I observe someone grabbing the handle of a hot pan without negative consequences- then I'll reconsider the precedent I've set for myself. But until I see some reason for reconsidering, repeating an action which will likely yield unfortunate consequences is just a senseless waste of energy and time. INJs don’t like being tied down to superfluous interaction with the external world and we avoid it where we can, just like NPs don’t like superfluous rules restricting their interaction with the external environment.

    And it's only an ad hominem if the reason for dismissal does not directly apply to the reason something is dismissed. If a mechanic is consistently unreliable at fixing cars effectively- I suppose it would be an ad hominem to use that to accuse him of horrible cooking, but it would not be an ad hominem to use that as a reason to refuse to take my car to him for repairs. Unforgiving and impatient perhaps, but it wouldn’t be an ad hominem. I'm okay with 'unforgiving and impatient' where the alternative is being senselessly tied down to more interaction with the external world than is necessary (eta: but I won't deny the pigheaded aspect of it).
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  9. #59
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I’ll figure out what the feelings are later, after I figure out whether or not they’re warranted.]
    Same here

    whenever an NJ leans towards being comfortable with reactivity and directly imposing their perception on the external world (where it seems like they truly can’t tell a difference between ‘this is what shared reality looks like to me’ and ‘this is what’s going on in shared reality’) then I’m inclined to think they’re more extraverted than introverted. At the very least, they’re more extraverted than I am because that kind of unquestioning certainty escapes me.
    I agree


    . And it seems to me like being Ni dominant just doesn’t allow it. We can dogmatically shut down and refuse to listen to anything further from certain people here and there when those individuals give us reason to doubt it’s worthwhile to put further effort into understanding their point of view- I’ll even allow that we can write people off based completely on projection…..but it’s not really INFJ terrain to aggressively impose our delusions on others. We shut down and withdraw instead. We split and chalk it up to ‘irreconcilable differences’. I like the way Kalach described inferior Se, I think it was in the ‘INTJ common issues thread’ (I looked just now, can’t find it and can’t be bothered to look harder- but it wasn’t quite “exaggerated fear for physical security”) and I think it applies to INFJs as well.

    The part that's bolded...HOW CAN I DEVELOP THAT!!!?!?!?!? That's my #1 problem! How do you not use emotion with that? Or is it because of the emotion that you refuse to listen?

    I need to stop listening to others! GAH! I never can tell where to draw the line.




    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post

    I'm not saying this is something all NTPs do- just like not all TJs are ruled by some dogmatic irrational core and all FJs aren't ruled by batshit projection. I'm just saying that's what the NTP pitfall looks like: solipsistic meandering which is less about [thesis + antithesis = synthesis] exchanging ideas as it is [my thesis + here's why your antithesis isn't worth considering = something I'll call 'synthesis', which is basically just my own thesis again after I've used 'precision and accuracy' to disqualify anything you said that doesn't appeal to me personally]. That drive for precision and accuracy isn't automatically magically objective (void of subjective influence) any more than NFJ projection is automatically magically insightful. The more the subjective influence is identified and brought to awareness, the less it convolutes thinking.

    This is REALLY good. This explains what I have been trying to put into words. Thank you.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  10. #60
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    The part that's bolded...HOW CAN I DEVELOP THAT!!!?!?!?!? That's my #1 problem! How do you not use emotion with that? Or is it because of the emotion that you refuse to listen?

    I need to stop listening to others! GAH! I never can tell where to draw the line.

    Well it’s not like it’s intentional. It’s more like- if a glass is already full of water, then no matter how much you try to pour more water into it you won’t be able to get it to hold more water. So it’s not like a boundary was asserted, but more like a threshold was met and interaction became unbearable. For me, I think the shutting down is because the emotion is there and I can’t really figure out what’s causing it, so I need to chalk it up to ‘this person is too different from me’ and leave it alone.

    And I really can’t speak for all INFJs- it’s just my experience and it seems like the experience of the INFJs I happen to have gotten to know well enough- having that uncertainty, and having a really hard time narrowing down possibilities for why other people say or do what they do- seems to actually be a common thread for us. We do get the instant stories/explanations that unzip in our heads, but it’s pretty much always accompanied by an exaggerated concern that we don’t have the whole story- that’s the part that I think indicates Ni over Fe. It really is more of a “I don’t know what the truth is, I just know what you’re telling me doesn’t add up.” Of course, I’m also e5, so the ‘shutting down’ may be related to that as well- but it really does seem to me like a common INFJ problem.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

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