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  1. #21
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    I don't know. I only know I can identify with what you said. I'm old and typing is a mess for me. INTP? Maybe.

    I'm not sure if I can explain it well. It wasn't until recently that I realized how much of what I did was fueled by certain beliefs (a kindly INFP pointed this out to me) or internal rules that I have gathered over the years. Family deaths, divorce, and being at odds with others brought out a lot of...aggressiveness in me. It put me in a positions where instead of cruising, I've had to fight for what I believe in.

    (I know @Saturned is going to see this!)

    I don't know if this is making any sense! I shouldn't be on here when I'm trying to study blood dyscrasias.

    !!!! D:!!

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    There's a reason why the redneck Te motto is "Git R Done"!

    @ the bolded, that's because Te-doms use their Te that way. IME, skillful Te use requires goals, or else the function can't really be used constructively. That's how I can tell angry NFPs from angry STJs; the STJs are usually ranting with a goal in mind, or ranting about a goal, whereas the NFPs seem to just be trying to vent it and get it out of their system.

    So I guess integrated use of inferior Te would mean taking deep breaths when you're upset and Making A Plan. (Hence my Visitor Message about "well-aimed volcanoes". )

    ^That's how I feel about Fi. Probably an inferior function thing.

    Aw, shucks! Thanks, friend!
    @bold, that probably explains why Te feels so clunky for me when I am trying to use it for things other than its intended purpose. I find it easiest to use when I am trying to break things down into smaller steps and figure out how best to do something. Even my INTP dad has given me compliments on my ability to create systems efficiently... I just never thought of that as Te because I had erroneous ideas on what Te actually is.

    I sort of have this irritating drive to not influence or modify things or people because I want life to happen to me in some magical serendipitous kind of way. And then I wonder, and complain, about how I never meet any "goals" I want...

    *goes out to harness her Te pony*

  2. #22
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I've been focusing on working with some of my issues with inferior Fi as of late. I am curious how others have gone about integrating their inferior function, and what degree of success they might have had. A couple of questions:

    How does your inferior function manifest itself? What personal issues do you relate to it, and what have you done to better integrate your use and expression of this function? How successful have you been?
    Tangent, This is actually how I stumbled upon TypeC. I was trying to improve my inferior about a year ago. I was so surprised and happy to find others talking about this stuff I had to join.



    my inferior manifests:
    -frequently now more than ever. Te's sheild is dying a quick and painful death.
    -From critizism when not specifically asked for. I will tell you when to tell me where I need to improve...You don't. It needs to be planned by me...I need to be the one to say "What can I work on" first. If that does not happen...go fuck yourself.
    -Relating to the previous point. Any idea that I have or hold on to, and you comment on, I take personally. Even if the comment is encouraged or not. Total shut down, and sometimes grudge held.
    -Relating to the previous point as well. I am forgiving people less and less literally every day. The opposite used to be my motto...because I really DID forgive...cause I forgot. lol (This is probably the most revolting manifestation of Fi. I hate myself for not forgiving. But I cannot anymore)
    -I'm so emo
    -And of course bottling up emotions only for them to come out with immense force either exploding or imploding


    There's probably more. But those are the only ones I can think of. And the last one covers almost anything in the big picture.

    Some of the things I have to constantly remind myself of is: that it's the process of getting shit done and enjoying life while doing it...NOT the end result. Goals don't mean shit if you die trying...YOU DIED...lol although I think it's Te motto to "die trying". Also I have to remind myself it's better to have someone kind around compared to just intellegent. And that people are just doing the best they can...just cause I can't see there immediate strengths doesn't mean they're assholes.


    What have i done:

    Ironically, I have bettered myself by taking your advice Wind-Up Rex "connecting with people who use Fi better than you do, explaining your problem, and asking for help." One of the first threads I ever made was about how I'm surrounded by FP's (in specific ISFP's). The ironic part about this is that I get aggrevated being around so many all the time, and turns out I need them (It amazes me what the universe has brought to me, and I didn't even appreciate it) Thank you btw The other night I went right to one of them and just started asking him questions. And it not only helped me but helped our relationship.

    As for this " Learning to meditate. Having an introspective practice like meditation helps you to figure out what's going on with yourself (Fi), and strengthen your connection to your inner guidance (Ni)." I am still pretty bad at it. But trying. I just ignore any inkling that is not Te or Se still.

    Successulness: I'm bad at introspection. It's really hard for me. It's hard for me to walk away when I'm upset, cause I don't introspect enough to know that I'm upset. But it's a working progress I guess. I'm learning everyday how I can concretely apply things to my life and catch myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The hard outside is rational, but the soft inside is as irrational as you can get. In a way, I feel that Fi is the foundation for everything I do, and Te is its guardian, the soldier assigned to protect it.

    Yes, as related to the above point, Te only has a sheild for so long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    It's funny that I've thought about these things in the past in almost these exact terms, especially the bolded. You also really neatly captured the more compartmentalized mindset that I'm ready to move forward from. I'm aiming for a convergence of what had up until now been "private" and "public" selves, and in doing so truly honor who I am and what I'm about.

    You bring up an interesting point, though, about the veil of objectivity that Te likes to cast. But I have no doubts that the Te and Fi "halves" of myself are equally valid in their respective viewpoints. In fact, as I was saying to Ginkgo in a VM my desire to integrate the Fi half is because it seems so much freer, and lives in a world that's so much richer than that which my Te-guided self will allow for. I just want the meaning and possibility and fullness that this sorta inner reconciliation seems to have the potential to create.
    I couldn't say that any better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post

    The less a TJ realizes there’s some irrational core attaching them to ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ (or ‘correct’ and ‘incorrect’?), the more they’ll be senselessly and impulsively ‘offended’ by anyone else having a different point of view? [Again- this is just what it looks like to me as an observer of it.]

    My point being, the inferior function is there whether it gets ‘developed’ or not- but making oneself aware of how it informs our judgment opens up possibilities that we wouldn’t otherwise investigate because we’d just impulsively assume the initial impression is correct.

    I think I have seen INFJ's do that. I didn't know that that was their inferior manifested. Interesting.


    The bolded is true. And a very good way to word how we can take the next step to making ourselves more aware.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    But, a thought...

    *If* a dominant perceiver's method really is to conceptualize the impact of the inferior, perhaps the dominant thinker's is to stipulate an impact. In the terms of extroverted thinking the stipulation might sound something like, "Yo, so it turns out people make decisions for all sorts of reasons, and some of them subjective, but whether logical or felt, these decisions are part of the environment now!" It'd make sense then as an extroverted thinker to start an investigation. Maybe squeeze some feelers and see what comes out. The idea then is not to mimic them. The stipulation about decisions in the environment applies to your own decisions too. So, adding together what you've seen others do (and asked questions about to learn "the truth") and comparing it with what you know of your own states and events, you might start seeing where you differ and where you're the same, and maybe invent your own metric. Voila, conscious Fi.

    I don't know if this actually works. In theory it's a process of identifying your Fi by identifying your place in the environment under the stipulation that some parts of the environment are generated from inside individuals. Sounds a bit self help-y, I guess. Still, it's potentially less disgusting than just having feelings.
    woah man...deep. Great way to word it. Like the comparing thing might actually be able to wake Te up to things...almost like looking at it objectively or something...I might be lost now...am I making sense of what you said? You're getting into my unconcious and I'm starting to wig out lol.
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  3. #23
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    *ahem*

    The decision to work on these things reeks--REEKS!--of Fi. I don't know why this should be true, or even if it truly is, and I don't know how to pinpoint the F elements either. But, a thought...
    I'm doing it right! Hurray!!!!



    *If* a dominant perceiver's method really is to conceptualize the impact of the inferior, perhaps the dominant thinker's is to stipulate an impact.
    Yes.

    In the terms of extroverted thinking the stipulation might sound something like, "Yo, so it turns out people make decisions for all sorts of reasons, and some of them subjective, but whether logical or felt, these decisions are part of the environment now!" It'd make sense then as an extroverted thinker to start an investigation. Maybe squeeze some feelers and see what comes out. The idea then is not to mimic them. The stipulation about decisions in the environment applies to your own decisions too. So, adding together what you've seen others do (and asked questions about to learn "the truth") and comparing it with what you know of your own states and events, you might start seeing where you differ and where you're the same, and maybe invent your own metric. Voila, conscious Fi.
    This blew my mind a little when I first read it a couple of days ago, so I thought I'd let it breathe for a minute before I responded to your post.

    The way you've explained it here gave me my first really visceral understanding of how fundamentally different the orientation of the inferior is. I guess I'd been playing just the tip with this thing, and now I feel like I'm back at square one lol.

    There was a lot that was said here that was important, but the bolded was in particular. I think until now I'd sought information from more adept Fi users and only grasped the effects rather than understanding the underlying logic...

    Wait. Oh god. I was Te-ing my way to Fi.

    Excuse me, Mr. Kettle, while I go roll around in this big puddle of irony over here.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    My inferior is possibly Si, but I have such a super huge focus on it. I often think it's my tertiary. I have been making lame attempts to create some kind of a structure in my life to help me get some kind of control of all the little things for years now.... and, I still have no advice for you. I think Si should be an easy one for me as all I have to do is take details of my life (bills, appointments, school, phone calls, even something as simple as getting the mail) and incorporate them into my schedule somehow so that I can have some set repetitive structure to prevent dumb life f-ups. I always have the plan but never the follow through. So I try to come up with all these creative ways to get around the barriers and call me lazy and forgetful but I just can't do it leading to many embarrassing repeated inefficiency problems and mistakes. Yeah, I know you guys are like. "we got our own problems lady." (Also, I know Si is not about paying the bills and stuff, however I think if I could use it for those kinds of things it would be satisfactory enough for me.)

    :sigh:

    I imagine it's a little more abstract for someone with say, an Fi inferior because then you're asking them to define their value system and apply it to everything.

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  5. #25
    Member Isis's Avatar
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    I've only read a few of the postings- but I feel like I'm reading a description of my ENTJ friend grappling with his Fi. When he is in touch with it- omg- the most tender and sweet thing I've ever seen. But most of the time- not in touch with it. Seems it feels awkward to him to "feel." Even claims he does not feel- just mimics reactions to things as appropriate for the situation. So I can't figure you guys out! (I'm Ne dom, Fi auxiliary. Definitely a "feeler.")

    My inferior is Si. It is not well developed I don't believe. I really function in Ne/Fi or Fi/Te mode. Si .... I dunno. I feel like it creeps up on occasion when a memory is sparked that will tug at my Fi or when a memory is sparked that will challenge my Te (but not very often.) I guess I don't feel the need to develop it. Not saying people shouldn't develop their inferior functions- but I feel like I don't need it per se because I'm content with how I perceive the world and interact with it. But I can understand if Fi is your inferior- this can be an issue when trying to get close to people. Just my take on it.

  6. #26
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    I've really appreciated everyones' responses so far.

    @Saturned commented to me that there should be some sort of inferior function mentorship program/buddy system wherein you learn the ways of your inferior from someone who has it as a dominant, and optimally vice versa. I thought it was a neat idea, and one with potentially a great deal of benefit.
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  7. #27
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I've really appreciated everyones' responses so far.

    @Saturned commented to me that there should be some sort of inferior function mentorship program/buddy system wherein you learn the ways of your inferior from someone who has it as a dominant, and optimally vice versa. I thought it was a neat idea, and one with potentially a great deal of benefit.
    I am available for both Ne and Fi chats if anyone wants to take me up on this!

  8. #28
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    Inferio si= extreme yet vague anxiety *all the time*

    It drives you mental, eats energy, wrecks your confidence and is slippery as fuck
    Since it is so vague it seems impossible to remedy as the cause can be anything and looking for it is a needle in a haystack. Obsessively double checking things and keeping track is exhausting, impossible to keep up and ultimately futile as it only fuels the paranoia

    Needless to say that integration has been unsuccesful so far
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  9. #29
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    All right, I'll try to play along with strict mbti theory.

    I'm...not sure.

    I think because I don't view Se in a negative light. If anything I see a lot of good out of it and think it [or, think activities/pasttimes/mentalities I ascribe to it, right or wrong] has a lot of positives and adds necessary balance, perspective, and sanity to myself/my life. Perhaps it's a different experience to have an extroverted perceiving function as your inferior? For me I feel more liberated with it than restricted/stifled. And, to tie into Ni discussions, Se seems to be a pretty essential component of self/ideas/how Ni works, so maybe I should just scrap the 'conscious' reference of it altogether, lol.

    But consciously, the closest I can come with viewing it in a more negative light would be the push/pull tendency.... finding that balance between IxxJ desire for closure, definition, deliberation, etc. vs. integrating the more spontaneous, undefined, and raw/'now'/observational element of Se. It's a tougher balance to maintain but I always try to integrate the 'letting go'/'embrace the moment' element of Se into my life. So balance challenge is because I don't think any extreme is the way to go; so I don't really ever see value in being fully in the moment (permanently/as a lifestyle) or fully not-in-the-moment (permanently).

    I probably would have answered this differently 10 or 15 years ago, though. (not trying to say I'm totally awesome/integrated, I'm just explaining where I'm at and that I don't really view Se as negative or debilitating. I guess, though, that earlier on in life, I *could*/would have said that the 'letting go' thing was much harder / very uncomfortable for me, so there's that)
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  10. #30
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    For example, with NFJs I’ve known- I’ve seen a tendency to jump to conclusions about the meaning of another person’s actions or words. Stories (explanations of ‘why) sort of instantly unzip in our heads for why other people do or say what they say or do- and it takes conscious effort to realize we aren’t actually seeing why *they* said or did it….we’re seeing why *we* would say or do it (iow: what it would mean if we said or did it ourselves). The benefit of pulling Ti ‘out of the shadows’ for NFJs is we can be aware that the way we make sense of the world isn’t necessarily because what we’re gleaming is the irrefutable truth about other people so much as it’s the truth about what it would mean if we were the ones saying or doing it. The less in touch an FJ is with the extent to which the way Ti ‘makes sense’ of others’ behavior according to our own limited experience of the world, the more we impulsively believe the first story (or ‘apparent causation’) that pops into our head is ‘clearly’ the truth.
    I think I have seen INFJ's do that. I didn't know that that was their inferior manifested. Interesting.
    Theoretically it's supposed to be more an ENFJ thing, and I'm inclined to think the INFJs who get that way lean in that direction (towards being on the cusp of E) because Ni makes it difficult to cling so confidently to a first impression. And I suspect that people who identify as INTJs and who have the Te version going on (unconscious Fi) lean towards ENTJ. Dunno. I mean I wrote “NFJ” and “NTJ” in my original post because something similar seems to surface in IxxJs too, but I can’t help but think when people complain about INFJs being this way- they’re actually dealing with something closer to an especially introverted ENFJ. I think that the more ‘I’ someone falls on the spectrum (as opposed to ‘E’), the less likely they are to mistake their own judgment for the almighty truth, and they just withdraw and get distrustful and reluctant and squirrelly instead (kind of like: “I don’t know what the truth is, but I know it isn’t what you’re telling me it is”).

    I’m really not sure what influence ‘inferior Se’ has exactly, I don’t have much of a handle on that.


    eta: I'm using "NTJ" and "NFJ" instead of just "TJ" and "FJ" only because when breaking it down further to describe the introverted counterparts, I'm kinda at a loss about ISJs. But I suspect 'inferior Fi' and 'inferior Ti' are similar regardless of S or N.
    Last edited by Z Buck McFate; 11-13-2012 at 11:38 PM. Reason: fix grammar
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