User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 67

  1. #31
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default Re: ENJs and Intelligence

    I think @Zarathustra's probably referring to is this study, which found positive correlations between intuition, percieving, thinking, and introversion (in that order) and IQ. Making INTPs the most likely to have high IQ's and ENJs the least likely of the intuitives to have high IQs.


    A quick google search reveals that there's not tons out there on this subject that's like, you know, exactly academically rigorous beyond the study I just mentioned. I did find this though from a blog where a guy conducted his own study on the relationship between type and IQ distribution, and this was one of his conclusions. Thought I'd add it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics and Prosperity
    There is a 31% probability that an INTJ’s IQ places him in the top 2 percent of the population. Next are INFJ, at 14%; ENTJ, 13%; and INTP, 10%. (The next highest type is the ENTP at 4%.) The four types (INTJ, INFJ, ENTJ, AND INTP) account for 72% of the high-IQ population but only 9% of the total population. The top five types (including ENTPs) account for 78% of the high-IQ population but only 12% of the total population.
    It's interesting, but then again, the guy couldn't recall where he'd gotten his statistics on IQ from, which somewhat muddies the waters credibility-wise.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  2. #32
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    I don´t think there are less ENxJs, just lilkey some ENxJs who are mystiped. Besides, it could still be a matter of pure chance.

    This thread contains too many post hoc ergo propter hoc explanations.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #33
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    You might also ask why the ENJs are the least intelligent of all Ns...

    Js are less intelligent period, because so many J questions in MBTI tests basically read like "Do you prefer dumb, boring shit or interesting, novel and complex stuff?" where the first choice will favor a J result, the second a P one, irrespective of one´s real preference.

    Many E-I questions can equally be understood as "Do you prefer dumb-jocking around with your flatmates or read Wittgenstein in your single-bedroom apartment?".

    No wonder someone scoring high in both E and J can be quickly classified as terribly non-intellectually inclined.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    637

    Default

    If I had stuff to do, I wouldn't be around here either (some kind of NT type, some suggested ENTJ). Maybe would come once or twice a week to pitch some philosophical nonsense I thought of or reply to some interesting topics when I feel like introspecting. That is if I wouldn't have nobody to talk to... But I'd still come around, but more likely once a week then or so.

  5. #35
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessertime View Post
    It would be an absolute waste of time, because (a) nothing is being achieved, and (b) there is no control to be had.
    This seems most plausible explanation for underrepresentation/stamina of ExxJs on here.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Js are less intelligent period, because so many J questions in MBTI tests basically read like "Do you prefer dumb, boring shit or interesting, novel and complex stuff?" where the first choice will favor a J result, the second a P one, irrespective of one´s real preference.

    Many E-I questions can equally be understood as "Do you prefer dumb-jocking around with your flatmates or read Wittgenstein in your single-bedroom apartment?".

    No wonder someone scoring high in both E and J can be quickly classified as terribly non-intellectually inclined.
    Are we to imply that you like dumb, boring jocking around?

    (I think your first question is more representative of N v S than J v P questions)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #36
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Are we to imply that you like dumb, boring jocking around?

    (I think your first question is more representative of N v S than J v P questions)
    1) Sometimes, but then I also enjoy reading Wittgenstein afterwards. No easy answer.

    2) Yes, it´s also representative of N vs S, yet there are plenty of J v P questions which sound rather similar i.e. "Do you prefer a stable job or one where there´s lot of daily variety" etc.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #37
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    WTF I thought MBTI was preference related not intelligence related as I find it to be perfectly plausible that some ESFJs could be smarter than some INTPs even if the INTPs preferences are more predisposed for intellectual endeavors though they may not be as skilled in the area of their interests despite perhaps having more interest in these areas than ESFJs. I am sure they are a million other examples though this one should suffice.
    There are likely geniuses in every type, and there are definitely individuals from any type who are more intelligent than individuals from any other type. But that doesn't mean certain types don't tend to be, on average, more intelligent than other types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    How do you personally define intelligence? I know that there are the IQ based definitions of intelligence but it seems to me that everyone seems to have their own variation based on what they deem important.
    Frankly, I find the discussions on this topic to be very boring and repetitive. They've been had so many times on this forum, and, while I tend not to get very involved in those discussions, as they are usually of a very low quality, with people making dumb arguments on many sides of the question, I've explained my position a number of times, and, frankly, it's more-or-less correct.

    Obviously, there are many different types of intelligence. So, what I was referring to was clearly not "social intelligence", or "emotional intelligence", or any of the other many intelligences one may posit (whether Gardner's eight, or some others). Clearly, ENTJs have their own form of "intelligence" (i.e., what they are good at doing), as do ENFJs, so my comment was by no means an attempt to take that form of intelligence away from them either. I genuinely believe those intelligences are important; frankly, they're probably just as, if not more, important than the type of intelligence I was referring to.

    So, that being said (and genuinely believed), I still do think that g (general intelligence [i.e., what IQ is supposed to measure]) measures something. And I don't think it's merely "NT intelligence", as some people have inanely tried to argue. If that were the case, then why would INFPs and INFJs tend to have more of it than ENTJs and ENTPs? To an extent, it does tend to be related in some way to N, I think, but I don't think that's a proper excuse to simply write it off. In large part, this is because I don't think someone simply being an N will make them have a higher IQ than someone who is a Sensor (I definitely think there are plenty of Sensors who are more intelligent than plenty of Ns), and I don't think being "more N" makes someone more intelligent.

    So, all those things now being said: I think there's a conceptual type of intelligence that has been deemed "intelligence" across many different cultures, for a long amount of time. This is the intelligence of problem-solvers (of whom STs aren't exactly not a part -- and ISTJs, ISTPs, and ESTPs tend to always be at the top of the Sensors, when it comes to intelligence, generally in that order, in the studies I've seen), of people who can think through an issue correctly, follow a line of reasoning properly, make the proper logical deductions (and inductions and abductions), etc.

    It's why we can look at a character like Sherlock Holmes, and say that he's intelligent. Or why we think of Leonardo da Vinci, or Plato, or Albert Einstein as being some of the most intelligent human beings who have ever lived.

    In our current cultural milieu, people don't like there to be rankings like this, and so saying this stuff, or even believing in some sort of general intelligence, is not politically correct. But I really don't give a shit about that, and, frankly, it's stupid, imo, to think there's nothing to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yes, this... @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=8413" target="_blank">Zarathustra</a> I'm genuinely interested - what is your measure of this?
    I think the above should probably answer your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    This is why I'm awesome.
    If you're saying you were just trolling, I'd definitely considered that.

    I barely read that thread, but noticed that part as I skimmed.

    The thing is, I've seen you be oblivious about enough other things (I'd have to put you and Riva near the top of the "most oblivious members of the forum" list) that it wouldn't be completely out of the realm of possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I think @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=8413" target="_blank">Zarathustra</a>'s probably referring to is this study, which found positive correlations between intuition, percieving, thinking, and introversion (in that order) and IQ. Making INTPs the most likely to have high IQ's and ENJs the least likely of the intuitives to have high IQs.
    That's one I've looked at, but there are others.

    This is the one whose data I've spent the most time analyzing:
    http://psych.wisc.edu/henriques/papers/Sak.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    A quick google search reveals that there's not tons out there on this subject that's like, you know, exactly academically rigorous beyond the study I just mentioned.
    mmm...

    I've seen a good amount of stuff over the years...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I did find this though from a blog where a guy conducted his own study on the relationship between type and IQ distribution, and this was one of his conclusions. Thought I'd add it:

    It's interesting, but then again, the guy couldn't recall where he'd gotten his statistics on IQ from, which somewhat muddies the waters credibility-wise.
    Yeah, I'd be a bit skeptical about that...

    Dude can't remember where he got the statistics from??

    It also runs contrary to pretty much everything I've seen on the matter.

    The types that regularly perform best on IQ tests are the INs (in order: INTP, INTJ, INFP, INFJ).

    I've seen some studies that say INTJs do better than INTPs, and some that say INTPs do better than INTJs.

    I don't think I've seen any where the INs weren't in the top four, nor any where the ENJs weren't in the bottom two for Ns.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don´t think there are less ENxJs, just lilkey some ENxJs who are mystiped. Besides, it could still be a matter of pure chance.
    I disagree here.

    I think there are definitely less ENJs, compared to their % of the population.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Js are less intelligent period, because so many J questions in MBTI tests basically read like "Do you prefer dumb, boring shit or interesting, novel and complex stuff?" where the first choice will favor a J result, the second a P one, irrespective of one´s real preference.

    Many E-I questions can equally be understood as "Do you prefer dumb-jocking around with your flatmates or read Wittgenstein in your single-bedroom apartment?".

    No wonder someone scoring high in both E and J can be quickly classified as terribly non-intellectually inclined.
    I agree here, though.

    I think this is one of the factors that leads to skewed results wrt intelligence.

    It's the same argument that smart people tend to test as iNtuitives, even if they're Sensors.

    I think both are true, but I also don't think they explain the entirety of the differences observed.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    This thread contains too many post hoc ergo propter hoc explanations.

  8. #38
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    1) Sometimes, but then I also enjoy reading Wittgenstein afterwards. No easy answer.
    Sooo complex and witty too!

    2) Yes, it´s also representative of N vs S, yet there are plenty of J v P questions which sound rather similar i.e. "Do you prefer a stable job or one where there´s lot of daily variety" etc.
    That doesn't say anything about intelligence though, rather, it implies that you equate "stability" with "dumb boring shit".
    Sure you're a J?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #39
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    JINX
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,737

    Default

    ENFJ's are out shepherding, of course. Building up their cult leader status.

    As for ENTJ's, I'd say the song below sums up why they're not as active on the forum:

    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  10. #40
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    That doesn't say anything about intelligence though, rather, it implies that you equate "stability" with "dumb boring shit".
    Sure you're a J?
    Well, it´s (imho) pretty clear that someone whose preference goes towards solving a wide array of different problems will generally be perceived as more what-is-socially-considered-intelligent compared to someone else whose preference tends towards relatively repetitive tasks. I surely may be wrong but that´s the basis of my conjecture, namely that people who will score very high on J might eventually cluster in a relatively lower "g-factor" group.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

Similar Threads

  1. [ESFJ] Why are there no ESFJs on Typology Central?
    By RaptorWizard in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 112
    Last Post: 03-06-2014, 05:27 PM
  2. [SJ] Why is the SJ Guardhouse so empty all the time compared to the others?
    By Jstrazz in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 03-12-2013, 11:32 AM
  3. [INFP] Why are feelings for INFPs so strong on this forum?
    By prplchknz in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 02-18-2011, 02:04 PM
  4. Why are there no ExxJ and ISJ entertainers or artists?
    By proteanmix in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 01-24-2010, 10:21 AM
  5. [ENFJ] What is the difference between ENTJ and ENFJ?
    By yenom in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-28-2009, 07:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO