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  1. #31
    your resident asshole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    That's actually a very good point he makes. It was not a blanket statement that "all SJ's are going to agree with their parents". But it's true that they do tend to follow what they learn more. They are also known as the "Guardians". The Si perspective takes in tangible experience and stores it as its blueprint to measure things by.

    Then, when they get older, they will manifest independence a bit more and adjust the values more, and sort out what they want to hold on to.
    I had noted that a lot of ISTJ kids (the "Melancholies") looked a lot like Sanguines (ESF, EP, etc), but then mellowed out when they grew up. Some of course were quiet bookish and even orderly types all along.
    But isn't this true for mostly everyone? We grow up and we simply take what adults tell us as the truth. However, at some point in time, we all learn to think for ourselves. (This period of time is different for everyone though.)

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    I think the new tradition is to "shun" tradition. The new rule is to "break" the rules.


    SJ on, comrades.
    Yup. Good point. I'm inclined to agree with this one.

  2. #32
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    In some ways Romney is the ideal candidate for excitement and instant gratification. He puts immediate economic growth in front of extending civil rights, preserving the environment, and other "boring" constructive tasks. And would prefer a "free market" subject to ups and downs over a government-controlled economy. Less government seems fairly ExxP to me.

  3. #33
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    I'm consistently surprised at what a superficial understanding of personality is displayed on this forum.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    In some ways Romney is the ideal candidate for excitement and instant gratification. He puts immediate economic growth in front of extending civil rights, preserving the environment, and other "boring" constructive tasks. And would prefer a "free market" subject to ups and downs over a government-controlled economy. Less government seems fairly ExxP to me.
    I guess we have very different ideas of "exciting" but I can see what you are saying. My comment was pretty tongue-in-cheek. However, there is statistical evidence which suggests that SJs tend to favour Republicans and ExxPs favour Independents/Democrats.

    The Republicans/conservatives tend to focus on fostering anxiety (about "the other guy"), rather than on a more constructive message, which plays into the SJ primary focus on security.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I guess we have very different ideas of "exciting" but I can see what you are saying. My comment was pretty tongue-in-cheek. However, there is statistical evidence which suggests that SJs tend to favour Republicans and ExxPs favour Independents/Democrats.

    The Republicans/conservatives tend to focus on fostering anxiety (about "the other guy"), rather than on a more constructive message, which plays into the SJ primary focus on security.
    Yeah I totally believe that. Actually your comment was just really interesting because I guess being e6 I naturally jump to play devil's advocate, and this one really made me think: how could Romney be a good candidate for "fun"? Honestly, I hate the shit out of Romney, so that was an interesting challenge. And I do believe that many SJs would lean towards the more conservative party, which traditionally in the USA of course is the Republican party. But I think it's interesting how the nature of the "conservative" party is sometimes less about "conservative" in the sense of "not changing what's working" as opposed to "conservative" in the sense of "not much government", and in that way "conservative" could mean "less boundaries". The latter definition seems much less SJ than the former - I would think that SJs would tend to gravitate towards more governance and more structure. And that's interesting about Democrats too, that ExxPs gravitate towards the Democratic party but it's actually often for more constraint. I do think there is a much more substantial Fi streak in the Democratic party. And because of the tendency to embrace change, it's probably often appealing for Ns as well, especially NPs. I would imagine TJs are more likely to lean Republican, as a general rule.

  6. #36
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I guess we have very different ideas of "exciting" but I can see what you are saying. My comment was pretty tongue-in-cheek. However, there is statistical evidence which suggests that SJs tend to favour Republicans and ExxPs favour Independents/Democrats.

    The Republicans/conservatives tend to focus on fostering anxiety (about "the other guy"), rather than on a more constructive message, which plays into the SJ primary focus on security.
    Yeah I totally believe that. Actually your comment was just really interesting because I guess being e6 I naturally jump to play devil's advocate, and this one really made me think: how could Romney be a good candidate for "fun"? Honestly, I hate the shit out of Romney, so that was an interesting challenge. And I do believe that many SJs would lean towards the more conservative party, which traditionally in the USA of course is the Republican party. But I think it's interesting how the nature of the "conservative" party is sometimes less about "conservative" in the sense of "not changing what's working" as opposed to "conservative" in the sense of "not much government", and in that way "conservative" could mean "less boundaries". The latter definition seems much less SJ than the former - I would think that SJs would tend to gravitate towards more governance and more structure. And that's interesting about Democrats too, that ExxPs gravitate towards the Democratic party but it's actually often for more constraint. I do think there is a much more substantial Fi streak in the Democratic party. And because of the tendency to embrace change, it's probably often appealing for Ns as well, especially NPs. I would imagine TJs are more likely to lean Republican, as a general rule.

    Edit - checked chart. Interesting! And confirmed, TJs do significantly lean Republican, at least in this study.

  7. #37
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post

    No.
    Why not?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #38
    Senior Member ScottJames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post

    So how come Romney is riding so high in the polls?
    Well for one, there are plenty of SP republicans (ex Donald Trump, Steve Wynn). They don't usually appear rigid and stereotypically conservative but it's not uncommon at all for them to have conservative beliefs/values. SJs are more likely to adopt the political affiliation of their families, whether that's democrat or republican.

    In my family, my Dad's whole side are all SJ democrats. By contrast, my Mom's sister's immediate family consist of an ISFJ, two ESFPs and an INFP and they're all republicans. They're all in rural Georgia. In areas with especially high concentrations of republicans, even intuitives and sensor perceivers are often republicans. In areas with a high concentration of democrats, there are going to be plenty of SJ democrats.

  9. #39
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeah I totally believe that. Actually your comment was just really interesting because I guess being e6 I naturally jump to play devil's advocate, and this one really made me think: how could Romney be a good candidate for "fun"? Honestly, I hate the shit out of Romney, so that was an interesting challenge. And I do believe that many SJs would lean towards the more conservative party, which traditionally in the USA of course is the Republican party. But I think it's interesting how the nature of the "conservative" party is sometimes less about "conservative" in the sense of "not changing what's working" as opposed to "conservative" in the sense of "not much government", and in that way "conservative" could mean "less boundaries". The latter definition seems much less SJ than the former - I would think that SJs would tend to gravitate towards more governance and more structure. And that's interesting about Democrats too, that ExxPs gravitate towards the Democratic party but it's actually often for more constraint. I do think there is a much more substantial Fi streak in the Democratic party. And because of the tendency to embrace change, it's probably often appealing for Ns as well, especially NPs. I would imagine TJs are more likely to lean Republican, as a general rule.
    I suggest you read this: http://www.amazon.com/Conflict-Visio.../dp/0465002056
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  10. #40
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    But isn't this true for mostly everyone? We grow up and we simply take what adults tell us as the truth. However, at some point in time, we all learn to think for ourselves. (This period of time is different for everyone though.)
    Well, yeah, and I was simply granting the the SJ will think for themselves too, but the point was, they are still likely to go with what was familiar. They will, as I said "sort out what they want to hold on to".
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