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  1. #1
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Default Fe-second vs. Fe-last?

    I'm trying to figure out the difference between how Fe manifests as either the auxiliary function (e.g. INFJ and ISFJ) or the inferior function (e.g. ISTP and INTP). I ask because even though I definitely utilize Fe-Ti, I'm unclear as to what order I use them in. Any takers?

  2. #2
    Senior Member ScottJames's Avatar
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    This can be a little tricky to wrap your head around as an INFJ. It's not uncommon for our 2nd function to feel the most abstract to us - especially with Ni as the primary, which sees a myriad of possibilities and perspectives.

    Fe will tend to show up as an inferior process in the form of drama or emotional irrationality.

    Our inferior process is also a sort of unconscious aspiration, so it can become a force for good. Bill Gates (INTP) and his philanthropic endeavors for example, or Tim Ferriss (INTJ) and his last couple books (4 Hour Body and 4 Hour Work Week - very Se). Things that require heavy use of the inferior process require so much conscious activity in taking skills through the stages of competence that they often make the person who works through them especially good at teaching those things. A disproportionate number of INJs end up in the health and fitness industry.

    The 2nd function is almost always the highest leverage point for development, at least through the prime of your life. Ti can be more comfortable, particularly for shy INFJs, since it's in the preferred realm (introverted). Essentially, you're using Ti when you're being analytical. If you stay in the introverted realm too much then Fe will likely be less developed and you'll end having issues relating to the outside world and/or being an asshole, depression, etc.

    Your Fe is the part of you that's acutely aware of what other people are feeling. As a developed strength, it will show up in legitimately helping people on larger and larger scales and with more impact. The more you develop it the happier you'll be. It requires getting out of the comfort zone, but it's very much worth it.

  3. #3
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    I can't speak for IxFJs, but as my 4th function, Fe really does play my "aspirational" role. I use Ti first-- logic is my default mode--, and only use Fe when I suddenly realize I might have hurt someone's feelings. It's usually a paranoid sort of feeling. And even when it's not a paranoid version of Fe, it's usually at the expense of what I feel comfortable with. It's those reasons I aspire to be better at Fe. It's not something that's going to go away, so at the very least I wish I could be more comfortable with its use.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  4. #4
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottJames View Post
    Our inferior process is also a sort of unconscious aspiration, so it can become a force for good. Bill Gates (INTP) and his philanthropic endeavors for example, or Tim Ferriss (INTJ) and his last couple books (4 Hour Body and 4 Hour Work Week - very Se). Things that require heavy use of the inferior process require so much conscious activity in taking skills through the stages of competence that they often make the person who works through them especially good at teaching those things. A disproportionate number of INJs end up in the health and fitness industry.
    Thats an intresting take. In my relationship to a Fi-dom I have often those moments when I want to teach her how to behave and say things in public, but have to restrain myself because it just isnt necessary. I have developed a quite big issue with that, namely that I always want people to teach how to behave or what they could do, to achieve the maximum of cool.

    Thats totally bogus compared to me always having been a rebel. It got probably motivated by people asking me for help on that topic in the past and me being a perfectionist, trieing to live up to a task, I was not made for. Now it has just turned into some sick twist, I want to get rid of and be myself again.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #5
    Senior Member ScottJames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Thats an intresting take. In my relationship to a Fi-dom I have often those moments when I want to teach her how to behave and say things in public, but have to restrain myself because it just isnt necessary. I have developed a quite big issue with that, namely that I always want people to teach how to behave or what they could do, to achieve the maximum of cool.

    Thats totally bogus compared to me always having been a rebel. It has just turned into some sick twist, I want to get rid of and be myself again.
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Did you mean to say Si-dom?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottJames View Post
    [...] Our inferior process is also a sort of unconscious aspiration, so it can become a force for good. Bill Gates (INTP) and his philanthropic endeavors for example, or Tim Ferriss (INTJ) and his last couple books (4 Hour Body and 4 Hour Work Week - very Se). Things that require heavy use of the inferior process require so much conscious activity in taking skills through the stages of competence that they often make the person who works through them especially good at teaching those things. A disproportionate number of INJs end up in the health and fitness industry. [...]
    Yeah, this applies to me (INFP with a Te inferior process). Now that I’m retired and have some time on my hands, I enjoy reading books on Te-based skills (organization, management, productivity, etc.) and Fe-based skills (networking, sales, etc.). Both are important areas in the working world, and both areas were weak for me as an INFP.

    While I was still working, I actually “intuited” and used much of what I’m reading now; that is, I picked those skills up as needed from other people around me or “reinvented the wheel” for my own purposes. But now that I have some leisure to investigate further, it’s interesting to study those areas academically, that is, as systems and disciplines.

    I also see those two areas as important skills even in retirement. They say that old age requires more discipline than youth because the body and mind are less flexible and less able to take abuse, one needs to deliberately impose schedules and maintain productivity to stay active and avoid just sitting around watching TV all the time, etc. So in some ways I’m using those Te- and Fe-based skills even more aggressively in my retirement than in my working years, when my day was largely structured by people and events outside myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottJames View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Did you mean to say Si-dom?
    As I read it, I think he’s saying that his INFP (Fi-Dom) girlfriend could use more social savvy at times. That realization causes him to engage his own inferior Si to help her with that, but it’s a role he doesn’t particularly relish (i.e., the role of a teacher of social etiquette.)

  8. #8
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottJames View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Did you mean to say Si-dom?
    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    As I read it, I think he’s saying that his INFP (Fi-Dom) girlfriend could use more social savvy at times. That realization causes him to engage his own inferior Si to help her with that, but it’s a role he doesn’t particularly relish (i.e., the role of a teacher of social etiquette.)
    Yes and no, I meant Fe as my third inferior function, but I just realized you were explicitly talking about the fourth function. But it goes hand in hand. Since I am living and was raised in a very Si dominated city, it is often especially those customs and traditions I try to call my girlfriend on. She was raised very independant from society due to her family being part french, being very open minded and living in a small village with only 300 people in it. I come from a region with 11 billion people living in it, am very connected to society and am raised very traditional and uninventive.

    So I think what I say still applies, with Fe being the medium to translate the Si perception.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #9
    Senior Member ScottJames's Avatar
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    OK sorry I just realized I totally mis-read your post. Always interesting to hear perspectives on how the functions show up for different people. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Yes and no, I meant Fe as my third inferior function, but I just realized you were explicitly talking about the fourth function. But it goes hand in hand. Since I am living and was raised in a very Si dominated city, it is often especially those customs and traditions I try to call my girlfriend on. She was raised very independant from society due to her family being part french, being very open minded and living in a small village with only 300 people in it. I come from a region with 11 billion people living in it, am very connected to society and am raised very traditional and uninventive.

    So I think what I say still applies, with Fe being the medium to translate the Si perception.
    Oops. My bad. Fe-third rather than Fe-second or Fe-last.

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