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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    someone suggested it was S vs. N in antoehr thread not T vs. F

  2. #12
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I think it is to some extent true, otherwise there wouldn't be so many questions to this effect on the tests in an attempt to categorize people as "thinkers" and "feelers." If the distinction is not reasonable, we need to revise the tests.

    I prefer to think of myself as a thinker partly because of this line of reasoning. I try not to let my personal version of reality cloud my ability to see the big picture. I have a lot of subjective feelings and judgments, but the more I think about them the more I find them incomplete and biased, and it tends to cause me problems. So a big part of my evolution over the years has been attaining this objectivity. I would imagine feelers would tend to like their subjectivity and not seek to get rid of it; but as one ENFP mentioned, not all of them do apparently. So who knows. Even though generalities compromise precision in favor of accuracy, they're all we have to go on in typology. Which is why the system can only make approximations if it is to apply to all people. Feelers who prefer objectivity must have other feeling characteristics which override this thinking tendency.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    someone suggested it was S vs. N in antoehr thread not T vs. F
    There's always a bigger dunce.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think it is to some extent true, otherwise there wouldn't be so many questions to this effect on the tests in an attempt to categorize people as "thinkers" and "feelers." If the distinction is not reasonable, we need to revise the tests.
    This makes absolutely no sense. If it's probably true because it's in the tests, then why would we ever think to revise them?


    Anyway, when we say "Ts prefer objectivity, Fs prefer subjectivity," what exactly does "prefer" mean? Does it mean that we prefer these things (broadly speaking) as worldviews? Or does it mean that the type of mental processes we use leads us to prefer certain activities over others? I think this is all a bunch of bullshit, especially the latter formulation (which seems to have taken over this thread as the main focus of discussion.) Styles of thinking are form, not content.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    False.

    Hitler and Stalin did prefer subjectivity.
    When their aides objected to the atrocities, they said:
    - Do not be so emotional.

    A judge has a stroke. The right hemisphere is damaged, or the left.
    In either case, she is unable to continue her job.

    T and F are the rational functions.
    Dichotomy of E divides T and F.

    Three dimensions is a simultaneous dichotomy of four parties.
    I'm afraid I'm a bit confused. Can you explain this a little more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Anyway, when we say "Ts prefer objectivity, Fs prefer subjectivity," what exactly does "prefer" mean? Does it mean that we prefer these things (broadly speaking) as worldviews? Or does it mean that the type of mental processes we use leads us to prefer certain activities over others? I think this is all a bunch of bullshit, especially the latter formulation (which seems to have taken over this thread as the main focus of discussion.) Styles of thinking are form, not content.
    I was thinking more along the lines of the bolded statement. My thought is that thinkers will generally enjoy engaging in activities that are more impersonal in nature and feelers will generally enjoy engaging in activities that are more personal in nature. Obviously a thinker is not going to just engage in objective activities and a feeler is not going to only engage in subjective activities, but it seems that they may mostly prefer to do so.

    How do you think the original statement would work in a broader sense anyway? My sensor mind isn't good with this.

    Would you mind explaining a bit more why you disagree with this? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything. I just want to hear a different viewpoint.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    There's always a bigger dunce.



    This makes absolutely no sense. If it's probably true because it's in the tests, then why would we ever think to revise them?


    Anyway, when we say "Ts prefer objectivity, Fs prefer subjectivity," what exactly does "prefer" mean? Does it mean that we prefer these things (broadly speaking) as worldviews? Or does it mean that the type of mental processes we use leads us to prefer certain activities over others? I think this is all a bunch of bullshit, especially the latter formulation (which seems to have taken over this thread as the main focus of discussion.) Styles of thinking are form, not content.
    Well, looks like you're in a bad mood did you think about how that'd effect your ability to best communicate today?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well, looks like you're in a bad mood did you think about how that'd effect your ability to best communicate today?
    Communication seemed straight forward to me. I understand exactly what was said and agree with it.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Communication seemed straight forward to me. I understand exactly what was said and agree with it.
    Labeling people dunces and calling bullshit are not the best ways to open a dialogue in my experience.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Labeling people dunces and calling bullshit are not the best ways to open a dialogue in my experience.
    ESTP's aren't exactly known for their Fe.

    And I took no offence to the bullshit thing. Instead I seek to understand why he thinks this way.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Labeling people dunces and calling bullshit are not the best ways to open a dialogue in my experience.
    Some people dont mind it and others do. Some people will even take ofense and argue where as they would normally ignore it. In these instances I just take what was said objectively and ignore everything else.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #20
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    This makes absolutely no sense. If it's probably true because it's in the tests, then why would we ever think to revise them?


    Anyway, when we say "Ts prefer objectivity, Fs prefer subjectivity," what exactly does "prefer" mean? Does it mean that we prefer these things (broadly speaking) as worldviews? Or does it mean that the type of mental processes we use leads us to prefer certain activities over others? I think this is all a bunch of bullshit, especially the latter formulation (which seems to have taken over this thread as the main focus of discussion.) Styles of thinking are form, not content.
    It makes plenty of sense if you think about it. Typology is useless without certain things, and this generalization is one of them. If you get rid of it you take away part of the definition of thinking as defined by the system. What I mean by revising the tests is that the people who created them might be overgeneralizing even more than necessary, or they might have an incorrect definition of thinking. If the mystical "they" who created typology need to revise their thinking, then they need to revise the tests. If not, these generalizations are part of the system and are true for all practical purposes. Typology works on the same principles as astrology, only it's not as old or accurate.

    It's the same as the following: I don't know your birth date, and so I decide to give you a test to try to determine which zodiac sign you are. I make a list of characteristics and modes of behavior I associate with all the signs and give you the test. I decide fire signs are outgoing. You are actually a Sagittarius, which is a fire sign, but you aren't outgoing in general, only under certain circumstances, so you answer no. It turns out I was over generalizing, and I should have specified in the questions when and under what circumstances you are outgoing, and with what motivations. So I revise the test.

    Yes, "prefer" is used in both of those ways, and preferences of cognitive functioning tend to lead to preferences in activity. But that is an even greater generalization.

    I think the system is imperfect, but it is useful for a lot of people, so I don't care to throw it out.

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