• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Proving cognitive functions correlate with your visual appearance

Anarkandi

New member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
16
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
3w2
Hi. I've been working with no advertising, watched through all the iffy videos of Bullshits, chatted out with the People Reading Project and on my own been gathering a visual library of the sixteen types. Two of these projects are down today. And Bullshit is close to being a cult. Alot of people still find their works interesting, and rightfully so, but if they have knowledge that is reliable and could help us understand more about the MBTI - this knowledge should not purely be in the hands of a cult, but for the general MBTI-community to put their hands on.

All three groups shared the hyphotesis was that personality - the eight jungian functions, to be exact, leak out and are actual visible signals you can spot in a persons body language.

My previous Phy-methodology of proving this was to bit a character into hundreds of gif images. We bitted 1000 animated .gif's of celebrities talking about stuff, and sorted them into hundreds of categories depending on what individual motion was being done. This basically took months, and was so exhausting the entire project died, despite reaching more and more consensus on type and clearly being on a workable path.

What we found our data pointing towards
- The eight jungian functions are real and there were clear nuances between Ti and Fi, Ne and Se, Ni and Si, and Te and Fe. An INTJ will only show cues that we saw as Ni, Te, Fi and Se.
- There were general energy feels that anybody could pick up on - showing X is an INTJ, because he has an Y kind of voice, shows a Z general feel and gameplay style.
- We can spot how well a person has developed, and we can see when an INFP is accessing Fi, Te, Ne, and Si - and from this - pinpoint and get a general feel about what these functions actually do.
- We can learn more about type interactions and how you can develop.
- It was exiting as hell.

What I want, is basically a way for establishing type visually and proving this to be evidence, or for refuting these claims entirely.

My current methodology is basically to let the visual samples in themselves be the evidence. Establish a big enough library and correlate it with other libraries out there to show that, even tough there will be alot of differences, my way of measuring is consistent. So we can agree that Florence Welch is an INFP, why not that Ellen DeGeneres, Kristen Stewart, Zach Braff and Robert Downey JR are INFP's, too?

They all show clearly similar energy in interviews, they show similar body lagnuage patterns, too. They can all be considered a Visual Type Signature, and can also be refuted as such, if somebody shows them to be different and can establish what and that they match better with another person or group.

Simply showing 100's of celebrities and correlating with type is more a concept of proof, than a proof of concept, however. It does not prove anything. It just proves I have a library of hundreds of celebrities. There's already plenty of those pages out there. Bullshit has the same problem. They believe their method to be solid, as it works and as they see it so clearly, but they are basically a group of NF's lacking in methodology and lacking in communicating their terms in clear, precise terms.

Phy had an idea of getting mri scanners to use at the same time as a person was being recorded, to see if a particular check was correlated with a particular part of the brain, similar to Nardi's research. But right now, I have no resources for this.

My two core problems
I believe visual types are real, but I need a way of proving them to be real.
I am only one person and can only do a certain amount of work. I'd like to find more people around that can help working on this.

Does the Typology community have any way of proving - or refuting - these claims?

Oh. Upload videos of yourselves, and send them to me, and I can tell you which visual signature/development you have, so you can see I'm the real deal. I'll also try to tell you what I'm seeing.

Here's also my blog, which is under development, which you can have a look at for seeing previous reads I've done, and I've also submitted three parts of guides on how you can learn to read yourself and others.
http://unlockingpersonalities.wordpress.com
 

ScottJames

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
229
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Can you give an example of one clear visual cue that correlates to a specific function?
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What fresh insanity is this?

You don't even know how to construct a falsifiable hypothesis, yet you claim to be "the real deal"... Oh wait...maybe you do...

An INTJ will only show cues that we saw as Ni, Te, Fi and Se
This is simple confirmation bias.
I think you're wasting your time.
 

ScottJames

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
229
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
What fresh insanity is this?

You don't even know how to construct a falsifiable hypothesis, yet you claim to be "the real deal"... Oh wait...maybe you do...

This is simple confirmation bias.
I think you're wasting your time.

Well, I find this line of research to be pretty interesting. I don't have any judgements to it's validity at this point, but I've had some correspondence with Anarkandi and he's not a knucklehead. He's actually pretty knowledgable. He was able to nail the profiles of two people I know from these videos alone. Could you do the same?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzGkqG9BtYA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryv4RTtGRmI
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well, I find this line of research to be pretty interesting. I don't have any judgements to it's validity at this point, but I've had some correspondence with Anarkandi and he's not a knucklehead. He's actually pretty knowledgable. He was able to nail the profiles of two people I know from these videos alone. Could you do the same?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzGkqG9BtYA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryv4RTtGRmI

If I could, wouldn't I be disproving my own hypothesis ? (Namely, that VI is bullshit - with a capital B).

Doesn't really give me much incentive to watch. Not that I would have had any anyway.

This sort of thing is one if the worst aspects of typology. It's cultish, creepy and dumb.
And if you look at his website, whenever his typing disagrees with the person's self-type, he just blithely declares them to be wrong. (Eg Elaine Aron, author of HSP, INFP, he says is INFJ because of some eye movement she makes - the basis for this claim is never justified or expounded upon). It's pretty easy to collect "evidence" with that approach.
Any serious typologist (if that's not an oxymoron) will tell you that the individual is the best guide to their own type.
 

ScottJames

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
229
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I agree that self-typing is typically the most accurate. I remember how frustrated I was when I was told repeatedly, against my own assessment that I was an INTJ. I also agree that, as I'm sure he'd admit, the material isn't refined or presentable. I do, however, suspect that there are visual indicators that have significance. I've noticed enough of a correlation with NLP eye accessing cues to suspect that there's something there. Maybe there isn't, but my intuition prompts me to look into it. Whether you think there's anything there or not, so be it. Maybe you're right.

However, I find your response to be downright rude. Why would you ever say things like that to someone you don't know who's trying to be progressive and to learn and innovate? I would expect any serious typologist to have enough awareness around their full function set so as not to be so hung up on their thinking process and be such a jerk.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
However, I find your response to be downright rude. Why would you ever say things like that to someone you don't know who's trying to be progressive and to learn and innovate? I would expect any serious typologist to have enough awareness around their full function set so as not to be so hung up on their thinking process and be such a jerk.

First of all, I'm not any kind of typologist. Second, I find your response to be downright rude. What of that?
You insult me personally. I merely attacked the edifice of his thought - something which he directly asked for help to do. Whereas, I don't recall asking for your opinion at all... Which makes your insult an unprovoked attack. That's a daring move for such a newb...


This is not in the least progressive. Its a bit like "somatotypes": pop-psych nonsense. As such it's superficial, unfounded, regressive gobbledygook. It isn't even possible to "prove" that cognitive functions exist, let alone that they have physical correlates.

I could provide a lengthier critique, but I'm not generous enough to devote more time to rubbish.

I find it interesting that he himself points out the cultish nature of what he's attempting to do. I think MBTI might have limited application in the area of self-help but most other applications border on the sinister. And I think insisting you know someone better than they know themselves, based on limited observation of their gestures in a short video clip, coupled with a theory which you don't even have the critical thinking faculty to elucidate, doesn't just border on ridiculous, it wades right in there and baptises itself.

Not only that, it's kinda rude.

But if you want to help him in his quest, knock yourself out.
 

ScottJames

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
229
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so

Not that so much. Down and to the person's left is auditory digital. Hard to believe that would correlate to sensing - seems like the opposite to me. More of a thinking/evaluation process. I would imagine sensory input is actually more filtered out when someone is in that process. I'll keep that in the back of my head though and see if I notice anything. It's possible I'm wrong.

It's a little different for different people, but sometimes you can get a good read. INFPs for example - some will dart their eyes all over the place and they're tough to read but many of them will go into 'kinesthetic' (down and to their left if they're right handed) when accessing their Fi. Like I said, many won't give a clear read, but when you see it it's a dead giveaway for Fi. If someone is reflecting and they go down and to their right (for a righty) then they're accessing auditory digital - more likely to be a thinker. It requires a little intuition and interpretation. If you ask questions, for example, that you would expect an INFP or ISFP to check their feelings on and they park either eyes in auditory kinesthetic then they're probably not Fi primary or Fi auxiliary.
 

ScottJames

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
229
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/309213_341113935980602_809509888_n.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 309213_341113935980602_809509888_n.jpg
    309213_341113935980602_809509888_n.jpg
    44.8 KB · Views: 8

lunalum

Super Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
2,706
MBTI Type
ZNTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I think the big problem here is even if you do correctly link certain physical markers to single particular functions, and you correctly identify a person's main four functions that way, that only narrows the person down to four types. It takes self-report aided by the evaluator's intuition to see the pattern of preference. I saw this more clearly the other day when I saw that someone had determined that some of Taylor Swift's body language shows Ti (ok, I'm with you there) but then later on I see that the site then typed her as an ISTP...... Um, she prefers feeling so much that it's ridiculous. ESFJ, most likely, and yes they have Ti too. I see this again with the typing of Kristen Stewart and Ellen DeGeneres as INFPs. How in the world do those two share a type? Simply sharing functions is not the same thing, just watching them in action epitomizes the difference between the Fi dom and the Ne dom. Some casual MBTI physiognomy test I took online labeled me as an ISFJ.... and again, my functions but the wrong order. Until a physical test can at the least also put context and personal reaction into the calculator somehow, it's going to be wrong 3 times out of 4 if not more.
 

Aesthete

Gone
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
384
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Perhaps there are certain reactions which denote certain functions. For example, my priest's smile shows that he has Te and Fi: it's very obvious that there are a lot things that he can't really connect to on a personal level (but at least he tries to pretend it's affecting him:D). His personality confirms he has a stronger Te and a weaker Fi--IxTJ, I think.
 
Top