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  1. #11
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    ^^ I totally do both in that scenario tho don't you all?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #12
    your resident asshole
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    Yes, that house scenario is a bit of a bad example. Anyone can see the potential in a house if they know enough about them. My ISFP mother does this very well and she is a definite Se, not Ne.

  3. #13
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I have to say that often my posts on here sometimes tend towards a philosophical slant, but it's usually unintentional, it's just I find it hard to explain what I see.

    But ive heard and read some conversations amongst intuitives that would, (and have), bored the snot out of me. Im not sure you can entirely correlate an interest with a type or function, but there are some that seem relatable.

    At the core of it though is the environment a person lives in. That can very easily change and define a person, including their interests. A heavily S slant in my life, for example, might possibly be the reason I keep switching types like an OCD drape's expert.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #14
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    Philosophical = theoretical? If so forI'm theoretical yes. Infact upto a level most people find it entertaining and sometimes/most-times peculiar. At the same time I have these moments or recall these moments for real life applications or observations. So I guess i'm split between being theoretical and being on the here and now. Hmmm... Or maybe I deal with the immediate with theories? Yes it's that. And when I deal with the immediate with here and now solutions I come back with theories to back them up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I don’t really associate iNtuition with philosophizing that much. And I’m not sure I could effectively articulate what separates STs from NTs in my mind- there’s generally a peculiar ‘space’ around NTs when they’re thinking, like they’re more reluctant to commit to decisions or opinions. With NFs though, there’s like this idealistic bubble around them, ideas about the potential of what people can be and what relationships could be, and it seems like absolutely every piece of incoming information gets compared to the idealized possibilities as they’re processing it. SFs can seem more present- and they do compare, but it’s more practical and rooted in experience.
    +1 ThE reluctance to commit probably is due to knowing without knowing that there are other possibilities?

  5. #15
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Most descriptions of Ns, from my reading of them, seem to imply that they are always engrossed in the process of reading deeper into things, forming connections, thinking on what some philosophers might describe as a "higher plane" than that of the practical world. Whereas Ss are portrayed as the opposite: perpetually focused on this plane, as it is the only plane in which practical things -- their specialty -- can be done.

    But the thing is, not all Ns are into that sort of thought process. Just as some Ss are indeed drawn towards philosophical thought, some Ns think that philosophical musings are pointless, pretentious, and annoying (and I've met some of those Ns, so that's my anecdotal evidence).

    So I'd be interested in hearing more about this: Ns who aren't philosophers, who focus more on the here and now, what their thought processes are, what their interests are and why they're interested in them. I'd be interested in re-framing the S/N dialogue so it doesn't involve "higher" and "lower" planes of thought, and de-bunking this myth -- and replacing it with actual facts -- might be a good way to get that re-framing started.
    Imo you generally can go by the "opposites attract" principle. While a NT dreams of a spaceship all his life, the greatest wish is to build the thing. For that philosophical matters are no help. Same could apply to a SJ grounded in the real world. His or her desire could be to leave the world to go into something asbtract like religion or philosophy.

    I myself am a big fan of philosophy, I just cant talk to most people intrested in that, cause they are such textbooks philosophs that use their knowledge to create an intellectual battle. One I'ld loose since I havent studied that. The other problem is that I can hardly deal with unreasonable or unscientific philosophy, so I'ld be more in the department of theorethical physics with the speciality of abstracting the real world to simple models so much, so you can gain a deeper understanding about the fundamentals.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #16
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    I pretty much hate philosophy. I’m naturally good at it, but I think it’s a huge waste of time.

    The biggest difference between me and most Sensors when embarking on a project is that I want to see how the end product will look as the very first step (IOW, get a big-picture overview) and then narrow in on the details secondarily. Whereas Sensors seem to want to go through the steps one by one, methodically and in order, seemingly without worrying what the end result will be.

    I’m having some work done on a house by an electrician, and he’s the most ferocious Sensor I’ve ever dealt with. Wonderful guy, an ESFJ, but it’s almost impossible to get a picture from him of how all the renovations are going to come together and work together in the end. Oh well, sooner or later we work it out. But it takes a lot of patience.

  7. #17
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    There's not really such a thing as being non-philosophical, and based on the practice and definition of philosophy I would actually argue that sensor types are on average more philosophical than intuitives. It's difficult to philosophize when you're going by faith in one's internal hunches and suppositions all the time. Most philosophy requires an aware and specifying thought process and a clear objective communication that you find everyday on the street. As an intuitive, I don't process and communicate things much in common terms; I have a more internal, built-in framework that is mentally separate from any realistic interest, so perhaps one could say I hold the philosophy of my own mind.

  8. #18
    your resident asshole
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    ^^^ I find this thought very interesting, as most philosophers I've heard of seem to be N's.

  9. #19
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    American Philsopher William James said ¨Most of philosophy is meaningless because their questions don´t make a difference. If the question makes a difference makes the question meaningfull, if not, not¨

    I identify with that statement and I consider myself practical and I appreciate facts and evidence.

    ¨How non-philosophical Ns think¨

    I will give you an example of how I use N in a work setting. I coordinate and supervise worker bees in a backend support capacity. When I´m not focused on a task it´s my job to constantly contingency plan and re-assess & re-prioritize to the changing situation. I´m constantly asking myself ¨what if¨ questions in an effort to efficienize my prior decisions and avoid future problems. This is what I enjoy about my job. I often see problems before they become one. I attribute this to being able to see the ¨big picture¨. Factors A & B are present, there is a good chance for W, X to occur with a slight chance for Y and Z, I should do M or N and O, if I do N I may cause F to happen. I find myself extrapolating all the causalities of my decision making process and it´s during these moments that I have to slap myself mentally and remind myself that I need to keep my eye on the ball. Rinse/repeat. I also remind myself that the bridges I see on the horizon require that I cross closer ones first. Sometimes the situation requires that I punt until the situation unfolds and an efficient solution presents itself.

    Yeah I´m paid to mentally masterbate about things I might never have to do at work.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #20
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Most descriptions of Ns, from my reading of them, seem to imply that they are always engrossed in the process of reading deeper into things, forming connections, thinking on what some philosophers might describe as a "higher plane" than that of the practical world. Whereas Ss are portrayed as the opposite: perpetually focused on this plane, as it is the only plane in which practical things -- their specialty -- can be done.

    But the thing is, not all Ns are into that sort of thought process. Just as some Ss are indeed drawn towards philosophical thought, some Ns think that philosophical musings are pointless, pretentious, and annoying (and I've met some of those Ns, so that's my anecdotal evidence).

    So I'd be interested in hearing more about this: Ns who aren't philosophers, who focus more on the here and now, what their thought processes are, what their interests are and why they're interested in them. I'd be interested in re-framing the S/N dialogue so it doesn't involve "higher" and "lower" planes of thought, and de-bunking this myth -- and replacing it with actual facts -- might be a good way to get that re-framing started.
    Good thinking.

    SJs are pragmatic and practical.
    NPs are neither.

    Pragma is the thing (organ).
    Organ > organization. Pragma > pragmatism.
    Read J.

    Prakrit is the usage. The tool of the thing.
    Read S.

    P and J both combine with S and N.

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