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  1. #81
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms.behaving View Post
    Pretty good observations. I hate catty. I fight catty with catty. I will make you feel what I feel until you stop!
    Spoken like a true Fe user! I've done this from time to time as well. I can be pretty calculating though. Or that hot anger will just flare up.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  2. #82
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms.behaving View Post
    Pretty good observations. I hate catty. I fight catty with catty. I will make you feel what I feel until you stop!
    I don't really notice cattiness. It either goes over my head or I respond by being a smart ass. But then again, I've recently discovered I'm very competitive even though I try not to be.

  3. #83
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Childhood example (since that's where all my examples seem to be coming from): I did something wrong, and it was horrendously wrong because I feel abnormally bad about it, so I want them to know why I did it, so that they have all the information before they start to lecture me about the situation. Maybe I took some correct steps before going into the incorrect ones, so they won't have to lecture me as much or in quite the same way. Maybe they'll have advice for me on how to change my mindset about it, if it was my mindset that was the problem. Maybe they'll be able to validate me just a little, make me feel better, before the lecturing starts. Either way, from my viewing of it, being able to look inside my head and change the way I mentally approached the issue will keep me from making the same mistake again, as opposed to just lecturing me on the events (which I'd think were a given!), attributing all responsibility to me, and telling me not to do it again. Not to mention that there's always the possibility that I wasn't 100% in the wrong, because either my process wasn't 100% wrong, or my intentions were pure. Of course, that sort of grey area is probably not something that Fe tends towards; like fidelia was saying, Fi is more live-and-let-live, so Fi would probably be more willing to call someone 75% wrong and attribute responsibility to several different parties, instead of just the one and 100% wrong. (I dunno, I'm BSing a little here.)
    Something that occurred to me after I posted is that what I described might actually be more Ni (or possibly Ti) than Fe. When it comes down to people who frustrated me the most and wouldn’t give me the chance to work through a ‘why’ aloud, my Fe dom mother wins the gold medal- and my son’s Fe dom step-mom drives him even crazier than his dad. And a large part of this is the senseless lecturing- that drives me nuts too. The ‘why’ provided doesn’t cut it if it doesn’t answer the specific questions we have. The difference (maybe Ti/Fi more than Fe/Fi?) is that for me (and my son is the same way) it’s really invalidating to be told what to think and to get in trouble when it isn’t really possible to think it because it doesn’t make sense. My INTP dad was always fantastic and patient about it though- he never got angry, and if he couldn’t come up with an answer he’d start saying things that were so ridiculous and funny that I’d forget what was bothering me in the first place and I’d just want to do what he said.

    Though I will add that I can see how the way I ‘work through’ the details I need might actually seem like senseless lecturing to someone who doesn’t need it to ‘make sense’ so much as they need to be able to express feelings that are bottle-necking in their head (or something?)- fid’s explanation a few pages back makes sense to me in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think I tend to get quiet and withdraw into myself if I'm hurt (however I may not even process the emotion as 'hurt', it would probably be more along the lines of confusion/anxiety/swirling feelings in my head such that I can't even think). I've never been one to lash out. I also can't recall a time where I've yelled at/shamed/criticized someone for doing X, Y, or Z. I don't think I emotionally react that way/interact with people that way. I think a lot of it is because as fia says, in the moment I really may not be able to make heads or tails of what's going on, what I think, how I want to react, how I need to react, what I think, maybe parts of what the person said are in fact true, maybe parts aren't... I need time to myself to figure that out.

    When things hit less close to home, and it's just me observing what's going on in the world around me, or reacting to decisions made in my company, etc, I can however have a tendency to 'rant' a bit more and more vocally disagree or say X decision was stupid, etc. For me there's just a huge difference between my relationships and how I process those (and this includes interactions with coworkers), and the less personal things, like work/impersonal decisions. Things tend to be gray in relationships for me, and more readily black and white in an organizational setting - the entity at large. I'm not able to articulate this well.
    I very much relate to this (and related very much to fia's post, which this is in response to). I have a lot of trouble recognizing something as 'hurt' immediately, it just registers as confusion/disorientation (the stronger it is, the more distracting it is), and I'll know something needs to be done to make that confusion stop so I may even feel the need to draw lines of some sort- but recognizing the exact feeling isn't a priority and it's even more confusing to have it pointed out to me (because it feels superfluous, like I can't understand the point- sort of like if it starts raining, my priority is to seek shelter from the rain and it seems pointless to stop and establish "I'm getting wet"- my priority is figure out how to stop from getting wet, I can figure out the “I was getting wet” part later). And because it's more confusion than anger or hurt, I almost never lash out at people I'm close to- it's an extraordinary challenge just figure out why the confusion is there and figure out how to frame my needs (to cut off the confusion at the source) in a way that's palatable to the person. And when I say 'in a way that's palatable', I mean trying to figure out the source, estimate how it might be inconvenient or even hurtful to make a request and weigh it against the irritation it's causing me before asking and/or if I even have a right to ask (to figure out as much of this as I can on my own first to make sure it isn't really self-absorbed of me to be requesting it).

    I can have a tendency to lash out in situations that aren’t personal or close to home- for the reasons already mentioned by others, it’s easier to recognize if it’s someone else who is being attacked or if I have absolutely no emotional investment in a person. Mostly that happens because I’m mirroring someone else’s style of communication. If someone else is getting aggressive in discourse, I can get hooked and start throwing it back without even realizing I’m doing it.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    So we all know that feeling types can get very emotional when their feeling function feels threatened or their values are violated.
    I'd like to clarify, though, that Feeling has virtually nothing to do with experiencing negative emotions. I just hope that we're not conflating 'Feeling' and 'feeling' in our own mental models--I hope that that doesn't defeat the premise behind the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    The thought of expressing something without the intention of actually changing the situation was an extremely strange and incomprehensible one to me when I joined the site.
    [...]
    In general terms, I believe Fe users feel a responsibility to do all the adjusting of their own that they can before requesting someone else to.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Like I said, for me they are not really 'rules', but just openly discussing needs. That's just me, though. I'm not sure if other Fe-users mean the same thing.
    Exactly. For me, it's about communicating what to expect from one another.

    In general, when I'm in a relationship with someone, I like to know where we both stand--are we friends, acquaintances, dating, boyfriend/girlfriend?--and what to expect from one another. Otherwise, it seems aimless to me. It's great to.. you know, not accidentally push another's buttons or wind up dovetailing everything that another person says into a push of one of your buttons (reading bullshit into shit that they've said).

  5. #85
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Yes! For me, knowing where you are at just avoids misunderstandings and also gives direction to the relationship with the other person.

    I like things categorized. It's not that I'm unwilling to make adjustments or change categories, but I like knowing what both of our expectations are for the relationship. Usually when I meet someone, I soon have categorized in my head what they are and how I'm likely to relate to them - polite acquaintance, instant friend, potential romantic interest, etc. I like having a read on what they are all about and how I fit in with that. Any new information I receive over time keeps refining my impressions (they are not rigid categories that put the person in a box, but kind of like file folders in the filing cabinet of my head. It just organizes my interactions in some way for me even though I often end up adding information or sometimes refililng entirely). I always thought that's what everyone did when they met someone, but have found since that that is not the case.

  6. #86
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Yes! For me, knowing where you are at just avoids misunderstandings and also gives direction to the relationship with the other person.

    I like things categorized. It's not that I'm unwilling to make adjustments or change categories, but I like knowing what both of our expectations are for the relationship. Usually when I meet someone, I soon have categorized in my head what they are and how I'm likely to relate to them - polite acquaintance, instant friend, potential romantic interest, etc. I like having a read on what they are all about and how I fit in with that. Any new information I receive over time keeps refining my impressions (they are not rigid categories that put the person in a box, but kind of like file folders in the filing cabinet of my head. It just organizes my interactions in some way for me even though I often end up adding information or sometimes refililng entirely). I always thought that's what everyone did when they met someone, but have found since that that is not the case.

  7. #87
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    The thought of expressing something without the intention of actually changing the situation was an extremely strange and incomprehensible one to me when I joined the site. I really had no idea that other people didn't all just use feelings as a barometer of a situation and nothing more.

    In general terms, I believe Fe users feel a responsibility to do all the adjusting of their own that they can before requesting someone else to. By that point, they may feel very frustrated that the other person seemingly is oblivious to all the adjusting they have already done to try to make it a workable outcome for both parties involved.
    +1 for me too. [This thread is so dense, I keep noticing good points only after they get quoted.]

    And it's hard to know when to get angry a lot of times because I've noticed that this isn't necessarily at the forefront of others' priorities, so I'm forever fighting the urge to project something like indifference or disrespect when others don't feel this responsibility as well. And I won't arrive at some 'this person is being disrespectful' conclusion easily- but if I keep getting signals that are confusing, I really have to distance the person enough that it won't affect me either way (so that I can leave it open ended without feeling the strong urge to categorize it one way or the other).
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  8. #88
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    Huh.

    I can't speak for all 'of us,' but when we explain this stuff out loud it might seem cold and rational--placing people into categories, determining expectations, finding trajectories with them, and so on. But when I'm in the moment with folks, or thinking about them in other contexts, it's certainly not so cold. It's just that when you think about people in the way that I do and you try to 'make sense' of them and figure out how you fit together, you end up with a way to express your relationships in rational/categorical terms. It's just one way of many to process or explain relationships--another tool and another perspective that helps in understanding the world around us.

  9. #89
    Senior Member oneandonly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I'm not always clear on delineating between Fi and Fe, but I will say that irl when someone hurts me I get really confused in the moment and withdraw or maintain the status quo of the moment until I can understand what happened. I then analyze any situation that confused me until I can come up with plausible explanations. If someone else has been violated, I will be more likely to go on the attack towards the perpetrator because as the natural observer, it is clearer to me what happened.

    I will also tend to mirror communication style, so I am much more aggressive towards aggressive people when a conflict must ensue. I feel like I can attack with Te if needed in certain situations - although it tends to be towards people claiming objectivity but being the equivalent of a hypocrite about it. Maybe it is because I hesitate to make the claim of objectivity because I see how difficult it is to achieve, and have a certain respect for it.
    I really resonate with this description... but I also realized this allowed me to be pushed around frequently. Things were never the way I wanted them to be.. So I worked really hard to speak up to people who put me in a corner like that.. because no one should be exercising their control and/or manipulation tactics over you. Now I'm working on a more subtle way of this.

    But also I read INFJ's should walk away in these situations... so thats also something Im trying.

  10. #90
    Senior Member oneandonly's Avatar
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    I would say

    Fe - can be hard to respond because The intuition and thought process start working overtime, to figure it out... or just like a lit match..

    Fi - tends to be water and will mostly run, or speak devoid of emotion and detached in order to not feel it to some extent.

    I think for people who have the Enneagram 9 or 2 we can employ The Fi stance... because we so badly want harmony and to please others

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