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  1. #41
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Disclaimer: Ok, I did a search and didn't find a similar thread. If there is one, feel free to let me know.

    So we all know that feeling types can get very emotional when their feeling function feels threatened or their values are violated. When this happens, what does it look like in Fi users versus Fe users? When they are under stress, feeling victimized, judging others, feeling protective, getting an attitude, telling someone off, going postal etc., how are the functions distinguished and how does it vary by type?
    My response used to be to the point where I either suppressed how I felt and tried to appease the person in front of me (as that was how I was raised), OR I'd blow up in a flash like a kneejerk reaction.

    Over time, I too use the trick of withdrawing while distracting the other as I make up my mind. My kneejerk reaction has become to first see the other persons pov if at all possible, then feel my own visceral reaction, and go back and forth between the two, dissecting where each is coming from and why. Once I determine intent and motivation on both sides, I'll seek for commonalities to bond over, and finally turn to the differences, looking for an alternative where both parties feel like they can win. I often will explain where I'm coming from to the other person, after I've shown them that I do understand their pov, so that we can enrich each others perspectives on the world as well as on who is in front of us, thus hopefully creating more understanding and insight into the other person for the future and avoiding conflicts through that understanding. After that, I either present what I think will be a win-win situation for both of us, or, if I am still working on that, I'll invite them to join me in that effort, gathering more information about who they are along the way to find a satisfying solution.
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  2. #42
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    My Fi is impenetrable.

    Once a friend insulted my autistic brother. I nearly beat him I was so mad, and settled for a highly aggressive pillow fight.

    (sleep over =\)

    I don't get all the hate for Fe, tbh.

  3. #43
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    @Amargith

    Thanks for clarifying this! I've observed the same from my INFP boyfriend as well. Sometimes he will seem a little bit annoyed by my need to 'keep talking about the fight', when it is over for him but not yet for me. I think perhaps Fi needs to make sure both parties are understood, and then leave future action to each individual's free will. Fe, on the other hand, is not shy to openly discuss and 'negotiate' future actions and try to come to a consensus on what should be done. I guess this can seem forceful and maybe even intrusive to Fi-users?

    There is an issue I've been thinking about that might be related. I think any Fe-user will agree that it is important for people to communicate their needs effectively. They will be able to say "I need this. Can you do this? Do you think this is a reasonable request? If not, what is your solution? I'm happy to discuss it" (of course, in reality it will be done in a very indirect manner) How does Fi/Te work with this? I know sometimes my INFP simply goes Te-mode and says "Don't do this" -- but it almost always involve hurt feelings. Is there a way to address the issue before conflict arises?
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  4. #44
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    @Amargith

    Thanks for clarifying this! I've observed the same from my INFP boyfriend as well. Sometimes he will seem a little bit annoyed by my need to 'keep talking about the fight', when it is over for him but not yet for me. I think perhaps Fi needs to make sure both parties are understood, and then leave future action to each individual's free will. Fe, on the other hand, is not shy to openly discuss and 'negotiate' future actions and try to come to a consensus on what should be done. I guess this can seem forceful and maybe even intrusive to Fi-users?

    There is an issue I've been thinking about that might be related. I think any Fe-user will agree that it is important for people to communicate their needs effectively. They will be able to say "I need this. Can you do this? Do you think this is a reasonable request? If not, what is your solution? I'm happy to discuss it" (of course, in reality it will be done in a very indirect manner) How does Fi/Te work with this? I know sometimes my INFP simply goes Te-mode and says "Don't do this" -- but it almost always involve hurt feelings. Is there a way to address the issue before conflict arises?
    I think the difference might lie in the fact that NFPs tend to look at a person holistically. And, subsequently, we feel loved by being understood. That sort of implies that you do not *need* a fucking manual to deal with those you love, as you make it a point to *know* them. That coming to an agreement and setting rules and guidelines within a relationship feels..well, constricting. Sure, it has its benefits to use Te (coz thats what that is to us) to outline things in the world and organise shit, and even deal with logistics within a relationship, but to regulate the relationship itself is..constricting. It takes away the spontaneity, the authenticity and ultimately..it builds resentment as your relationship appears to be more about duties and obligations than about genuinly loving and appreciating the other and doing things for them *because* you are motivated by that love, not by a sense of 'oh right, this was in the contract as well.'

    That also means that when conflicts arise, you trust in that ability to read and understand the other person to hash it out here and now. And you in a way *expect* (at least I do, from my boyfriend, its the one exception I have on expectations as I hate them, but I screen for it thoroughly in selecting a mate) the other to put in the effort to know you and understand you well enough to help you resolve that conflict. In my case, that includes *knowing* that I fucking love you and that I aint saying things to hurt you just for the heck of it. That I do not feel the need to backstab you or hurt you in the process, but that I accidentally might as Im frustrated and hurt myself. I demand to get the benefit of the doubt on that though. I love you, therefore hurting you is unlikely to be my goal. If you know me at all, for that matter, you'd know it is the furthest thing from my mind. And that works vice versa as well. That way no resentment can build up, things are out in the open, we know where we stand even if we do not like it, and we still love each other despite what was said. And now we can pick up the pieces and build towards a great future together.

    In essence, i do not want you to agree with me upon how to resolve things and use rules (which always have x-amount of exceptions *anyways*) to relate to me. That to me, is for amateurs (no offense, seriously, I know this must be frustrating to hear for Fe-users). I want mastery. I want you to know me so intimately that rules are not necessary, that you can use what you know about me so diligently that there *are* no rules anymore. You just *know*. For you to become a master at who i am (and for me to do the same) is the greatest display of love thinkable. It basically comes down to 'Paint by Numbers' vs exquisite art, in my books. And while one can lead to the other and can work as a great support system, it ultimately becomes limiting when striving to obtain true mastery.

    As for the communicating needs-thing..I think that's Fe vs Te. Usually Fi-users let the chips fall where they may and are attracted to those that naturally tend to their needs (I hope, at least) and vice versa. This is done to respect the core of the other person as well as yourself. They are who they are and unless *they* decide to change themselves, that is who you will be working with. And you can choose to change yourself or not in order to do so. Even more preferable however is to not have to change a thing and let the person be themselves and naturally address each others needs due to the way you are (less resentment, less friction etc that way). If you do become incredibly close and perhaps even decide to build a future together, then the above about knowing each other (and therefore striving to anticipate one another's needs out of love!) is applied.

    When something then goes to a point where you go: 'Do not do that!', it is a Te warning as to your coming close to changing the core or demanding a change in the core. It however does not mean the Fi-user doesn't see your point/isnt capable of seeing your point as to why you would wanna go that way. They usually will be open to a conversation about how to reach the goal (Te) using alternative routes that do not disturb Fi. Decisions as to whether or not Fi needs an internal review to accommodate the goal are entirely made by the Fi-user and the process often leads to brooding alone. It requires time, introspection and will often happen without you realizing, until you come across the change by accident, or they make it a point to inform you that *this* now has changed. Often they are more than willing to elaborate as to how that change came about when asked about it (after the facts, during they are still struggling with internal conflicts and opposing views!), but this does not often come up, so it rarely happens.
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  5. #45
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    This is interesting. I know that something that stymies me is when I can’t work through the details of why something is a problem for me, and it gets met with a quick “okay, I’ve heard enough.” I don’t really feel a need to explain why I did something, but if I can’t explain why I need something fixed (OR get an explanation from someone for why they want me to do something differently) then it makes me kinda nuts- and even if the person stops doing the issue I brought up, if they cut me off and I can’t explain why I need the conflict resolved then I’ll still feel unheard and I’ll need to distance the person. I think the main reason for needing to explain why I need something done differently is so that I can get feedback about whether or not it’s reasonable, to gather information like fid described. When someone says ‘fine, I heard you, drop it’ then I feel like I have no way of knowing if I’m imposing something unreasonable and I really can’t stand that feeling. I think that expressing how something makes me feel/why I did something to start out with feels superfluous- my imperative is to get the other person’s experience to compare it to, then I might delve into the nuances of how something makes me feel for the sake of clarifying to the other person. I don’t need to iron out those nuances for the sake of exploring them though, which seems to be a Fi thing (and which I can understand because I do the same thing with Ti).

    And the reason this kinda stood out to me is because I can distinctly remember my own biggest childhood frustration was with not getting a satisfactory explanation for why I shouldn’t do something. Nothing was more frustrating than “Do it because I said so!” and not having it followed up with any explanation to make it make sense to me. My INFJ son has always been the same way- he never particularly felt the need to explain why he did something, the problem came from hearing that he shouldn’t do it again and not being able to work through the details of why (and hearing that it had a negative affect on someone else was usually enough motivation)- but if he couldn’t get an explanation for why he shouldn’t do it then I’d notice him withdraw in frustration and sorta get trapped in his head for hours afterward. His eNTJ dad frustrated the bejeezus out of him with this (and truth be told, he frustrated me with it as well).
    Huh! My parents were actually very good about explaining why I shouldn't do things. It was probably one of the things they were best at, parenting-wise, from the beginning. (Maybe it's because they're Fe-users and had stories like yours, growing up, so tried to avoid being like their own parents.)

    What you're describing makes a lot of sense; I relate to it a lot, and I think it has to do with that same Fi/Ti similarity we've been talking about. In my case, it would go similarly to what you described. Childhood example (since that's where all my examples seem to be coming from): I did something wrong, and it was horrendously wrong because I feel abnormally bad about it, so I want them to know why I did it, so that they have all the information before they start to lecture me about the situation. Maybe I took some correct steps before going into the incorrect ones, so they won't have to lecture me as much or in quite the same way. Maybe they'll have advice for me on how to change my mindset about it, if it was my mindset that was the problem. Maybe they'll be able to validate me just a little, make me feel better, before the lecturing starts. Either way, from my viewing of it, being able to look inside my head and change the way I mentally approached the issue will keep me from making the same mistake again, as opposed to just lecturing me on the events (which I'd think were a given!), attributing all responsibility to me, and telling me not to do it again. Not to mention that there's always the possibility that I wasn't 100% in the wrong, because either my process wasn't 100% wrong, or my intentions were pure. Of course, that sort of grey area is probably not something that Fe tends towards; like fidelia was saying, Fi is more live-and-let-live, so Fi would probably be more willing to call someone 75% wrong and attribute responsibility to several different parties, instead of just the one and 100% wrong. (I dunno, I'm BSing a little here.)

    It feels a lot like how I imagine Ti feels: wanting the other party to have data that's as complete as possible so that they can make their feeling judgment based on it. So when I try to provide that data and then get shut down with "We don't care, what you did was wrong, don't do it again", it feels like you're on trial but the judge decided you were guilty before you even stepped into the courtroom, and willfully ignores all your testimony.


    Edit: I don't mean to be hating on Fe so much. And I don't mean for it to look like hating, because that's not how it feels in my head.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


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  6. #46
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #47
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    While I don't get yelled at too often irl, my reaction is pretty consistent to remain calm and try to bring the other person down to calmness. If it is in a work context and I am being misjudged I am better at responding by telling the person they don't have all the information, so they are not in a position to draw that conclusion. I have reacted that way a couple of times. If I'm being misjudged by a family member, I will focus more emotionally and tell them I am sorry for making them feel that way and ask what I can do to fix it. Then I leave the situation and cry uncontrollably. It is extremely rare that I will show strong emotion in front of people, and I think I have only done it in front of my husband now. Not only do I not like to fight, I loathe it and go to lengths to avoid it.

    In another professional context at a meeting I was having what I thought was a good conversation with a chairman whom most people dislike. I thought things were going great and I made the effort to impress him, and he said a couple of things that struck me odd. They were actually putdowns and jabs at me, but at the moment I was so in the mindset that we were having a good conversation that it only confused me. When people aren't actually yelling at me, but undermining in other ways, I am usually initially confused by it. It doesn't make sense to me why someone would do that and I have to spend a lot of time thinking and reflecting to figure out what happened and why. Then I feel mistrustful of them and avoid them.

    Online I have more distance and time and will fight back in certain cases. Arrogant, glib dismissal is what I typically respond to in force especially if it is in response to a serious issue. Naiveté' is fine, but it can be quite damaging when coming from a position of privilege and entitlement. I feel like that is one of the few demographics that cannot be reached through being "nice". There is something really thick and impenetrable about that type of thinking.
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  8. #48
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    While I don't get yelled at too often irl, my reaction is pretty consistent to remain calm and try to bring the other person down to calmness. If it is in a work context and I am being misjudged I am better at responding by telling the person they don't have all the information, so they are not in a position to draw that conclusion. I have reacted that way a couple of times. If I'm being misjudged by a family member, I will focus more emotionally and tell them I am sorry for making them feel that way and ask what I can do to fix it. Then I leave the situation and cry uncontrollably. It is extremely rare that I will show strong emotion in front of people, and I think I have only done it in front of my husband now. Not only do I not like to fight, I loathe it and go to lengths to avoid it.

    In another professional context at a meeting I was having what I thought was a good conversation with a chairman whom most people dislike. I thought things were going great and I made the effort to impress him, and he said a couple of things that struck me odd. They were actually putdowns and jabs at me, but at the moment I was so in the mindset that we were having a good conversation that it only confused me. When people aren't actually yelling at me, but undermining in other ways, I am usually initially confused by it. It doesn't make sense to me why someone would do that and I have to spend a lot of time thinking and reflecting to figure out what happened and why. Then I feel mistrustful of them and avoid them.

    Online I have more distance and time and will fight back in certain cases. Arrogant, glib dismissal is what I typically respond to in force especially if it is in response to a serious issue. Naiveté' is fine, but it can be quite damaging when coming from a position of privilege and entitlement. I feel like that is one of the few demographics that cannot be reached through being "nice". There is something really thick and impenetrable about that type of thinking.
    Though I put different focuses on certain processes, I relate to this almost 100 percent.
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  9. #49
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Online I have more distance and time and will fight back in certain cases. Arrogant, glib dismissal is what I typically respond to in force especially if it is in response to a serious issue. Naiveté' is fine, but it can be quite damaging when coming from a position of privilege and entitlement. I feel like that is one of the few demographics that cannot be reached through being "nice". There is something really thick and impenetrable about that type of thinking.
    So no big fan of anti-authoritarian education, too ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #50
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    My response used to be to the point where I either suppressed how I felt and tried to appease the person in front of me (as that was how I was raised), OR I'd blow up in a flash like a kneejerk reaction.

    Over time, I too use the trick of withdrawing while distracting the other as I make up my mind. My kneejerk reaction has become to first see the other persons pov if at all possible, then feel my own visceral reaction, and go back and forth between the two, dissecting where each is coming from and why. Once I determine intent and motivation on both sides, I'll seek for commonalities to bond over, and finally turn to the differences, looking for an alternative where both parties feel like they can win. I often will explain where I'm coming from to the other person, after I've shown them that I do understand their pov, so that we can enrich each others perspectives on the world as well as on who is in front of us, thus hopefully creating more understanding and insight into the other person for the future and avoiding conflicts through that understanding. After that, I either present what I think will be a win-win situation for both of us, or, if I am still working on that, I'll invite them to join me in that effort, gathering more information about who they are along the way to find a satisfying solution.
    That sounds like a really productive and mature response.

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