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Thread: Fe put-downs

  1. #31
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    This entire thread seems ridiculous at worst and misguided at best... It's a bunch of INTJs complaining about how their ESFJ mothers forced them to wear their Sunday best to grandpas when they didn't want to, or how mom got mad they didn't say please and thank you... Oh the horror of your horribly unique situation growing up! Peoples mothers never try to control their children! Smart socially slow kids are always geniuses and their mothers are rule following idiots... Yep :P (sarcasta bowl!).

    Now full disclosure: my mother is ESFJ, and growing up our nuclear family was ISTP, INFJ, ISFP. So I totally understand how crazy ESFJs can come across with "tyrant Fe". But that's ridiculous because we all know STJs do this too and we all know NFJs don't do this as much. So what I've taken this entire post to say is that this isn't about the Fe function at all. It's about SJs. Fe in my mind is a vibe-o-meter that picks up external cues of how everyone and thing feels. It INCLUDES value judgments, but it isn't the ONLY thing! Fe's definitely then have the ability to influence others feelings and value judgments, but it isn't always an overt tyrannical attempt at shoving rules down your throat. The desire to then force these things onto others must be slightly something else...

  2. #32
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom View Post
    This entire thread seems ridiculous at worst and misguided at best... It's a bunch of INTJs complaining about how their ESFJ mothers forced them to wear their Sunday best to grandpas when they didn't want to, or how mom got mad they didn't say please and thank you... Oh the horror of your horribly unique situation growing up! Peoples mothers never try to control their children! Smart socially slow kids are always geniuses and their mothers are rule following idiots... Yep :P (sarcasta bowl!).

    Now full disclosure: my mother is ESFJ, and growing up our nuclear family was ISTP, INFJ, ISFP. So I totally understand how crazy ESFJs can come across with "tyrant Fe". But that's ridiculous because we all know STJs do this too and we all know NFJs don't do this as much. So what I've taken this entire post to say is that this isn't about the Fe function at all. It's about SJs. Fe in my mind is a vibe-o-meter that picks up external cues of how everyone and thing feels. It INCLUDES value judgments, but it isn't the ONLY thing! Fe's definitely then have the ability to influence others feelings and value judgments, but it isn't always an overt tyrannical attempt at shoving rules down your throat. The desire to then force these things onto others must be slightly something else...
    My mom was an NF and about the furthest you could get from an SJ as humanly possible. I also don't think this has anything to do with tyrannical rules or judgments. I would however say that the biggest flaw in SFJ parenting relates to this exact thing because it involves at a deep level not accepting the child for who they are.

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  3. #33
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    I highly doubt it is Fe that causes this.


    But maybe, in a roundabout nineteen-different-conditions type thing, as is most of MBTI.

  4. #34
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom View Post
    This entire thread seems ridiculous at worst and misguided at best... It's a bunch of INTJs complaining about how their ESFJ mothers forced them to wear their Sunday best to grandpas when they didn't want to, or how mom got mad they didn't say please and thank you... Oh the horror of your horribly unique situation growing up! Peoples mothers never try to control their children! Smart socially slow kids are always geniuses and their mothers are rule following idiots... Yep :P (sarcasta bowl!).
    Now full disclosure: my mother is ESFJ, and growing up our nuclear family was ISTP, INFJ, ISFP. So I totally understand how crazy ESFJs can come across with "tyrant Fe". But that's ridiculous because we all know STJs do this too and we all know NFJs don't do this as much. So what I've taken this entire post to say is that this isn't about the Fe function at all. It's about SJs. Fe in my mind is a vibe-o-meter that picks up external cues of how everyone and thing feels. It INCLUDES value judgments, but it isn't the ONLY thing! Fe's definitely then have the ability to influence others feelings and value judgments, but it isn't always an overt tyrannical attempt at shoving rules down your throat. The desire to then force these things onto others must be slightly something else...
    actually, ENFJs and ESTPs are the main culprits in my opinion (extrovert directing Fe types are the worst at it)
    oh, and STJs do not do this. they can enforce objective rules tyrannically, but they don't do this so much with social conventions. an STJ is more likely to think 'huh? he's weird. whatever' but then go back to whatever they were doing without feeling compelled to say anything.
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  5. #35
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    I went through this realization that acting, at its heart, is the ability to manipulate your own emotions. That's what Fe is all about.
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  6. #36
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    On this Fe put down thing - It's a subtle put down that you are not acting in an "appropriate" way. They apply judgment to your behaviors and make you feel like you are an idiot for being the way you are. Why aren't you like other people? It can be quite undermining. Who says the social norms or what is in their head is right? That's the problem because frequently they are not right. It's a failure to appreciate individuality.
    Dammit why do you have to be such a round peg....give up....join us.....join the squares!

    Oddly enough if I were to say anything Fe related that was stated in this thread; it is often out of jest or irony and anyone who knows me fairly well understands this.

    If I meet people who genuinely subscribe to this particular.....'standard' im generally appalled and amused in equal measure....mainly at the idea that someone could actually be serious about such unimportant shite or that they think it is their duty to supress anything out of the ordinary, whatever that means...

    Of course im also a notorious hypocrete what with my whole honesty complex whereby I talk behind a person's back about their idiosyncracies that bother me...but then I let them know anyhow, usually in jest, because being bothered by such small habits is both hilarious and stupid of me.

    Going by the amount of people who call me weird, mad and on one occasion, 'downright insane', at my clubs I frequent, im not really that bothered most of the time. If anything I enjoy the fact that people around me are comfortable enough in my prescence that they can be straight with me about such things.

    I believe throughout my life very few people ever hid problems they had with me, which I find occasionally upsetting but usually refreshing and useful.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    VERY good topic. Nice thread. There are much better examples actually than what you provide.

    These situations actually can make me angry...

    Fe types are utterly oblivious to this by the way.


    .
    Yes, the situations piss me off as well. I'm glad to see that someone else has made this correlation as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    Unless I was playfully teasing a friend with whom I know I can safely joke around, I can't imagine why I'd say anything like the examples above. I don't think I even have those thoughts to begin with. A few of my uncles and cousins derive great amusement from people-watching and laughing at anything they find unusual, but this bothers me a lot. I'm sure that if they didn't know me, they'd be making fun of me, too.

    I do work with an ESFJ woman who has made snarky comments about my clothing and my boyfriend, which I find odd (as she claims to adore everything subversive and strange). However, I don't think this has to do with her personality type as much as it does her insecurity.
    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Could you give better examples of this? I'm really interested. The examples in the OP, to me, just sound like "people being mean" (in a playful way to disguise their insecurity). Are these deemed "Fe" only because they are judging from the 'social norm'?
    It's more of bitch more that a lot of the Fe users make. They mostly do it when they are upset. I've also noticed that Fe put downs are especially common in the types that have a strong 3w2 fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The OP's examples remind me more of the ISTJ's I grew up around, so if that is Fe at all (since the FJ's don't seem to be identifying with it), then it might be Trickster, which would try to double bind the person they are criticizing, with the prospect of being weird, or "gay", which from a traditional homophobic perspective is a kind of "weird".
    Si figures in this as well, and the offending behavior likely somehow threatens their vulnerable tertiary Fi sense of ethics. (And for an ESFP, it would be Witch, which would be a critical attack for when the "parental" authority of their aux. Fi is negated, but I don't think they would really bother with the types of examples the OP gave).

    INTJ and ENFP would work just like ISTJ and ESFP, respectively (Fe in the same archetypal position), but I think with them, it is being N that allows them to accept things being out of the norm more, so that's probably why you never heard them doing it.

    If not, then this might not always be something connected with type or functions.
    There is some kind of connection here, and I'm going to find out what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    On this Fe put down thing - It's a subtle put down that you are not acting in an "appropriate" way. They apply judgment to your behaviors and make you feel like you are an idiot for being the way you are. Why aren't you like other people? It can be quite undermining. Who says the social norms or what is in their head is right? That's the problem because frequently they are not right. It's a failure to appreciate individuality.
    Thank you sir. I could not have said it better myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    actually, ENFJs and ESTPs are the main culprits in my opinion (extrovert directing Fe types are the worst at it)
    oh, and STJs do not do this. they can enforce objective rules tyrannically, but they don't do this so much with social conventions. an STJ is more likely to think 'huh? he's weird. whatever' but then go back to whatever they were doing without feeling compelled to say anything.
    I've noticed that it's surprisingly not that common in the INFJ though.

  8. #38
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    I laughed at a girl once because she travels and hour and half to go to indigo. That sounds more like a te put down maybe? I just couldent believe someone who would trvael that far to go to a bookstore. Sjs in general or even js always like to throw their worldview at you thinking its what you should be doing.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    I work with the most ESFJ woman I can imagine existing, and she has done things like this to me several times. The one that comes to mind immediately is one day she looked at my feet while we were working and cracked up laughing and she was then like "oh sorry, i was distracted by those shoes" and just kept kind of halfway trying to work and halfway laughing at me.

    She is actually someone that I generally like quite a lot, but man, those kind of "you will be ridiculed for not fitting into the box that society has built for you" moments are irritating.
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  10. #40
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I find Fe can be like a butcher cleaver used to chop off a gangrenous limb.

    Better to not be the limb, or else it will slay you where you stand; to be discarded without remorse.

    Ive always thought there was a cold and calculating side to Fe that most dont talk about, but I recognise it in myself from time to time, it's the part of me that would, (in a crisis), evaluate who was worth saving and why and which course of action would benefit the majority.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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    Piglet was comforted by this.
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