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Thread: Fe put-downs

  1. #11
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Why would anyone start such a thread? Everyone knows Fe corrupts ppl into being self rigtheous condescending bigots.
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  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I don't know if it's Fe related. Just last night I was watching two ESTJs trade insults over several hours over what each were wearing. Although in this context it was meant as friendly ribbing and no real offence was meant.
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  3. #13
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    The OP's examples remind me more of the ISTJ's I grew up around, so if that is Fe at all (since the FJ's don't seem to be identifying with it), then it might be Trickster, which would try to double bind the person they are criticizing, with the prospect of being weird, or "gay", which from a traditional homophobic perspective is a kind of "weird".
    Si figures in this as well, and the offending behavior likely somehow threatens their vulnerable tertiary Fi sense of ethics. (And for an ESFP, it would be Witch, which would be a critical attack for when the "parental" authority of their aux. Fi is negated, but I don't think they would really bother with the types of examples the OP gave).

    INTJ and ENFP would work just like ISTJ and ESFP, respectively (Fe in the same archetypal position), but I think with them, it is being N that allows them to accept things being out of the norm more, so that's probably why you never heard them doing it.

    If not, then this might not always be something connected with type or functions.
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  4. #14
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    The best insults are made indirectly for the insulted to unravel in their own special way.

  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    A lot of those things sound like something that people who subscribe to traditional gender roles and stereotypes say, which is not a type thing or cognitive function thing.
    Well said, Giggly. I actually think anyone is capable of doing that. For my own self I don't care if the put-down is because of maintaining a tradition or cultural behavior or if it is to maintain a personal ego or viewpoint, it hurts the same.

    I think the most horrible put-down is to have someone judge you with assumptions that are made up in their head. This is especially upsetting if there is a serious situation involved. When someone does this you know communication has been halted because they are using you as a proxy for something else which is why they have such a large set of assumptions. I once had a man getting uncomfortable fixated on me at work trying to get my home number, showing a lack of emotional regulation in his interactions, and having sexual overtones in his words and body language. I reported some of the incidents and one of the secretaries took me aside and verbally attacked me. She has smiled and seemed friendly since, but I don't forgive her because she hasn't apologized. People online have sometimes judged me with false assumptions and I remember that as well.

    If people want to use Sensors as the stereotype of maintaining tradition and putting people down who fall outside the norm, then iNuitives who think they "just know" shit about you because of magical insight are also capable of quite unpleasant put-downs.
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  6. #16
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    On this Fe put down thing - It's a subtle put down that you are not acting in an "appropriate" way. They apply judgment to your behaviors and make you feel like you are an idiot for being the way you are. Why aren't you like other people? It can be quite undermining. Who says the social norms or what is in their head is right? That's the problem because frequently they are not right. It's a failure to appreciate individuality.

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  7. #17
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    I actually had been thinking of starting a thread like this, asking for specific examples. What spurred it (for me) is getting annoyed at Te’ers, mostly Te doms, and wondering what exactly the Fe correlate looks like.

    This doesn't even begin to be a problem for all, or probably even most, Te types- but there’s an inclination to respond to things with some incredibly obtuse dismissal (some variation of the word ‘stupid’ or ‘idiot’ is often involved) and there’s a bizarre smugness about it. I can remember my eNTJ ex doing this all the time- making some comment and his body language suggested he thought he was coming up with some clever remark when it was something incredibly obvious/dull and he was just coming off like a dim-witted caveman instead. I imagine the forcefulness comes from frustration, to vent- but where it’s blatant, it’s stunning. The more forcefully they call things ‘stupid’ or ‘idiotic’, the less capable they seem of being able to use their own reasoning to come to their own conclusions. It’s incredibly counterproductive because they effectively discredit themselves. And I know there must be some Fe correlate, but I’d like to hear some specific examples. Mostly for the selfish reason of wanting to make sure I'm keeping it in check myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    On this Fe put down thing - It's a subtle put down that you are not acting in an "appropriate" way. They apply judgment to your behaviors and make you feel like you are an idiot for being the way you are. Why aren't you like other people? It can be quite undermining. Who says the social norms or what is in their head is right? That's the problem because frequently they are not right. It's a failure to appreciate individuality.
    I do think it’s interesting how Te ‘direction’ doesn’t seem to bother Fi/Te types and Fe 'direction' doesn’t seem as grating to Ti/Fe types. I mean it does get grating, but it tends not to be as wholly offensive. As @Orobas has touched on a few times here and there, there’s a tendency to project something into the other type which makes it seem more offensive than it’s intended to be. One of the reasons function theory makes sense to me is because I have noticed there being a strong tendency for people to find those with their own extraverted judgment to be tolerable (even if annoying) while having a visceral reaction to the extraverted counterpart of their introverted judging preference. I find Fe ‘nudges’ to be trivial and thoughtless, but don’t have anywhere near the same reaction to them as when someone goes full on Te caveman around me.
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  8. #18
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Why would anyone start such a thread? Everyone knows Fe corrupts ppl into being self rigtheous condescending bigots.
    Duh!

  9. #19
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    This doesn't even begin to be a problem for all, or probably even most, Te types- but there’s an inclination to respond to things with some incredibly obtuse dismissal (some variation of the word ‘stupid’ or ‘idiot’ is often involved) and there’s a bizarre smugness about it. I can remember my eNTJ ex doing this all the time- making some comment and his body language suggested he thought he was coming up with some clever remark when it was something incredibly obvious/dull and he was just coming off like a dim-witted caveman instead. I imagine the forcefulness comes from frustration, to vent- but where it’s blatant, it’s stunning. The more forcefully they call things ‘stupid’ or ‘idiotic’, the less capable they seem of being able to use their own reasoning to come to their own conclusions. It’s incredibly counterproductive because they effectively discredit themselves. And I know there must be some Fe correlate, but I’d like to hear some specific examples. Mostly for the selfish reason of wanting to make sure I'm keeping it in check myself.
    I have only recently started noticing the potential connection between Te and this type of behavior. Interesting observation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I do think it’s interesting how Te ‘direction’ doesn’t seem to bother Fi/Te types and Fe 'direction' doesn’t seem as grating to Ti/Fe types. I mean it does get grating, but it tends not to be as wholly offensive. As @Orobas has touched on a few times here and there, there’s a tendency to project something into the other type which makes it seem more offensive than it’s intended to be. One of the reasons function theory makes sense to me is because I have noticed there being a strong tendency for people to find those with their own extraverted judgment to be tolerable (even if annoying) while having a visceral reaction to the extraverted counterpart of their introverted judging preference. I find Fe ‘nudges’ to be trivial and thoughtless, but don’t have anywhere near the same reaction to them as when someone goes full on Te caveman around me.
    Also good points. The bolded - is it true? Maybe it is.

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  10. #20
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The bolded - is it true? Maybe it is.
    Well it seems to me a lot of times, when it comes up, Fe’ers kinda react like “But it’s only clearly that person’s opinion” when Fe ‘direction’ is pointed out. The menacing aspect of it tends to evade us (maybe not completely, but generally moreso). When I sense a Fe’er getting wound up (irl) my experience is usually to think something “Whatever. To each, his own.” And I’m not saying this is universal, I’m just saying I’ve noticed a trend in Fe’ers having a more indifferent reaction. It’s not like the ‘direction’ sways me in one direction or another, but it’s kind of neither here nor there to me. I think Fi’ers get offended on some deeper level by it though.

    eta, to clarify:

    If someone were to tell me, “You should wear (some specific thing) to (some specific event) because it’s an important event to those attending, and it’s selfish and rude break that rule.” My reaction would be to consider whether there’s any valid point in what they’re saying- I’ll take the value into consideration and think “Pfft. Whatever.” to the rest of it. It seems to me like Fi’ers get so offended by the ‘selfish and rude’ part that it makes the whole comment too distracting to consider whether or not there’s any value/use in it.

    I imagine it sounds like trying to exert control over others through insults? Because that’s what Te cavemen sound like to me. Rather than ideas commanding respect through their own merit, it’s like they throw insults to attempt to command that respect. It’s an amazing fail. And it's so distracting it's hard not to dismiss everything they say. [More eta: 'logically' I've come to realize they're probably throwing insults to vent frustration rather than as an attempt to MAKE me 'think something which is clearly imperfect'.....but I still find it too distracting to interact with well.]
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