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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Initiate a 30 minute conversation about typology and be sure to include no practical application to "real life" in what you talk about.

    70% of S's can be ascertained right there because they'll have either changed the subject well before the half-hour is up, or if they endure you, from the distracted / pained / annoyed / bored or glazed-out look they will you.

    @_Poki_: you may be part of the 30% that need further scrutiny.
    Isnt it our job to understand and actually apply it to reality though? You would be suprised at the things that cause my eyes to glaze over. Some of it talking about physical things because I am like...this is boring to talk about...I would rather actually do something. I dont really like talking about sports...that bores the crap outta me. Lets joke, laugh, and have fun.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #12
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Try showing the person in question a picture and ask him or her to describe it. The S will be more likely to list particular details while the N gives more of an overall impression and less actual details.
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  3. #13
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Based upon some of these answers and ideas I am both an S and an N.

    The problem is you dont know what is inside a person's mind, (unless they explain it and even then it could be a poor interpretation on their part), and you can only assume and guess from certain tell-tale signs at some of what they might be thinking.

    This leads onto the other problem in that people tend to have different states of mind depending upon their current circumstances. Although it is true that there will be SOME consistancy, often people are quite flexible. For example when it comes to abstractions, (which is a loose catagorisation sorry), In some circumstances id talk your ear off for hours with ideas and theories and then in others I would be loath to do so because I might not be in the mood, or that particular abstraction is not of interest to me.

    I mean honestly....how do people actually tell? I knew a young man from my english class in college for years who seemed to be such a down to earth and home-grown kind of person yet he never really engaged with any of the things I tried to talk to him about. However one day I saw him reading something about philosophy and after asking him about it he just opened up like a flood gate and spent roughly 1-2 hours with me talking about ideas, most of which were extremely abstract.

    The point of this little anecdote is that what I would personally deem interesting and 'abstract' was not of interest to him. Should I have typed him as S or N because of this?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #14
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    I've boiled my conceptualization of S versus N down to reality versus theoretical - as opposed to "abstract", because abstract seems to me a bit of an abstract term. In my understanding, then, Ss focus on what is, what has been, what will be. They concentrate on what they can identify and what they can impact. They appreciate tangible detail and tangible atmosphere - this can be fictional, though! My SJ boy spends hours poring over fictional Russian lit because he loves how the detail puts you so magically in the environment. It's an appreciation of and focus on what you have. N is a focus on what could be and what is not. We concentrate on what we do not understand and what we have yet to understand how to impact. We are drawn to intangible ideas and unreachable ideals. It's an appreciation of and focus on what you could have.

    I find S and N hard to gauge with certain people. Some are relatively obvious. My ENFJ coworker, for example, blatantly obvious. He talks about "love" and "hope" and "inspiration" and "motivation" and "harmony" and "divine insight" so often he's like an NF keyword generator. You could potentially know this within 5 minutes of observing him, since he is quite effusive. Another coworker of mine, I've yet to figure out. She's so incredibly phobic 6 and detail-oriented that I pegged her at first as an SJ, but she also talks about her intuition and her visions and her dreams all the time, and yesterday she noted how we were dealing with a lot of really difficult people, and literally said, completely seriously, "a full moon must be coming". I suspect upon revision that she may actually be an sp/sx super-phobic 6 INFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmativeAnxiety
    In some circumstances id talk your ear off for hours with ideas and theories and then in others I would be loath to do so because I might not be in the mood, or that particular abstraction is not of interest to me [...]

    The point of this little anecdote is that what I would personally deem interesting and 'abstract' was not of interest to him. Should I have typed him as S or N because of this?
    You raise a very good point, and I think it's worth asking oneself why we're typing someone to begin with - idle curiosity, desire to improve communication, etc. I assume in general we type for better understanding, and I think we need to keep that in mind, otherwise we could be totally obscuring understanding with thinking we understand something that we're really just assuming.

  5. #15
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    Sensors talk about their day. Intuitives talk about their dreams. Try not to take that too literally as by our day I mean what we are doing in the physical world and by dreams I mean what we are doing in the mental world.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Sensors talk about their day. Intuitives talk about their dreams. Try not to take that too literally as by our day I mean what we are doing in the physical world and by dreams I mean what we are doing in the mental world.
    I dont by that. Es talk about there outer world and Is talk about there mental/feeling world
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I really haven't got a clue how so many people do the sort of "So I was at a bar, and this INTP guy I'd never seen before hit on me." You'd never seen him before and don't know him - how do you know he's INTP?!
    They don't know he's INTP. They guess because he's smart and seems unfocused and they think that makes someone an INTP, or the person reminds them of someone they think is an INTP.

    I really don't buy the sort of "the eyes have it" approaches
    That's because those approaches are crap. I've compared those theories to the confirmed types I know and they don't even come close to matching up. Myth: busted.

    The reason this dichotomy is so hard to pick out, you're right. First of all, all these horse shit stereotypes due to misinterpretations of the texts (or shitty texts outright, in Keirsey's case) cloud the truth of the matter. Then you'll see insulting, arrogant shit like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hildur View Post
    You'd need some kind of catalyst question, some rather complex/conceptual idea. If their eyes glaze over, they are S people…
    if people describe their plans by listing a number of details and you (N) can tell that the sum won't hold up - they're probably S people as well... (or just plain stupid... ah, tricky…)
    Aren't you charming. I buy the Ti.

    Read this:

    http://www.amazon.com/Psychological-...8801958&sr=8-1

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    N types may be more future-inclined
    That's not accurate.

    Look, dichotomies don't work well at all for this, because the cognitive functions are so varied, and in application, they actually cross. N is Ni or Ne, S is Si or Se. Ne and Se are focused on the present. Se prefers to grab what is there, Ne prefers to grab what may be behind the scene. Si prefers to grab an impression of what was there in similar circumstances before and overlay it on the present. Ni prefers to grab an impression of an extrapolation, a kind of branching model of potentialities, based on what has been there in similar circumstances before.

    BUT. Remember that modern theories claim anyone using one of these functions is also using the mirror version of the other dichotomy on some level. The theory I like is that this unconscious function leaps up on demand, and the more it's needed, the more comfortable it becomes. As an ISTJ, I'm using Si and Ne, in alternate amounts, to deal with the world. In fact, it's my Ne that helps me counter the abstraction of Si, a kind of practical blindness to (or veil over) reality that Ni shares… as I see it, the abstract perceiving functions are Si and Ni, not Ne.

    So what does this mean in practical, real-world terms? Not much that will help you type someone on sight. Personality type is self-reporting. The only way you're going to get close is by having someone take a reliable test... ideally that was made by someone with similar enough experiences to theirs, then reviewing the results and similar possibilities with them. I guessed my sister correctly by knowing her history and understanding Fi (her passion for equity and causes, and a tendency to take things personally) and the way it interacts with Ne (a flair for the dramatic)… she's INFP. On the other hand, two friends of mine who I thought might be ENFPs turned out to be ESFPs. My ex-wife, who was so sure the INFJ description was spot-on for her at first, now is more confident in the ISFJ description.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    She's an artist, she loves going out dancing... She's said that in most cases, rather than sitting around talking, she'd rather go out and do stuff with her friends. (I think I'm one of the exceptions, ha. We had some good convos over a glass [or bottle!] of wine.) It's stuff like that too... None of it is definitive with most people, that's the thing.
    Artistry follows feeling functions more than thinking functions, in my experience… but I know a few T artists as well. She sounds like she may be an extravert, too. Pin down the other two dichotomies and you have a starting point.

    Do you have some of her art to share?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    BUT. Remember that modern theories claim anyone using one of these functions is also using the mirror version of the other dichotomy on some level. The theory I like is that this unconscious function leaps up on demand, and the more it's needed, the more comfortable it becomes. As an ISTJ, I'm using Si and Ne, in alternate amounts, to deal with the world. In fact, it's my Ne that helps me counter the abstraction of Si, a kind of practical blindness to (or veil over) reality that Ni shares… as I see it, the abstract perceiving functions are Si and Ni, not Ne.
    So what do you look for when determining if someone is an Si user or Ni user (possibly stupid question but I don't care)? It's an introverted function and both are, as you put it 'abstract perceiving functions,' so it's not as apparent as their extroverted counter parts.

  9. #19
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    Look, dichotomies don't work well at all for this, because the cognitive functions are so varied, and in application, they actually cross. N is Ni or Ne, S is Si or Se. Ne and Se are focused on the present. Se prefers to grab what is there, Ne prefers to grab what may be behind the scene. Si prefers to grab an impression of what was there in similar circumstances before and overlay it on the present. Ni prefers to grab an impression of an extrapolation, a kind of branching model of potentialities, based on what has been there in similar circumstances before.

    BUT. Remember that modern theories claim anyone using one of these functions is also using the mirror version of the other dichotomy on some level. The theory I like is that this unconscious function leaps up on demand, and the more it's needed, the more comfortable it becomes. As an ISTJ, I'm using Si and Ne, in alternate amounts, to deal with the world. In fact, it's my Ne that helps me counter the abstraction of Si, a kind of practical blindness to (or veil over) reality that Ni shares… as I see it, the abstract perceiving functions are Si and Ni, not Ne.
    I agree with all of these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    So what does this mean in practical, real-world terms? Not much that will help you type someone on sight. Personality type is self-reporting. The only way you're going to get close is by having someone take a reliable test... ideally that was made by someone with similar enough experiences to theirs, then reviewing the results and similar possibilities with them. I guessed my sister correctly by knowing her history and understanding Fi (her passion for equity and causes, and a tendency to take things personally) and the way it interacts with Ne (a flair for the dramatic)… she's INFP. On the other hand, two friends of mine who I thought might be ENFPs turned out to be ESFPs. My ex-wife, who was so sure the INFJ description was spot-on for her at first, now is more confident in the ISFJ description.
    Here is where I begin to disagree. On the one hand, I agree that it can be difficult. As @Lady X said, it can be especially hard with balanced types. However, I think there are a combination of techniques you can apply. Rather than say someone is an S or N, I tend to focus on either a temperament (NF, NT, SJ, SP) with some combination of looking at functions and how a person is communicating (orally or in writing) to make a guess. Sometimes you can just tell someone is an SJ or an SP. It's obvious. I have generally found that the most effective way to guess a person's type is by looking at functions. Once you get to know someone, it can appear that they consistently seem to use Si, for example. A lot of times, you can tell people who seem to prefer Fe over Fi. Te can also be extremely obvious as can the line of thinking a person who prefers Ti is using. Ne also has characteristic telltale signs when it's being used. So by pulling the clues together, you can come up with a guess. For me personally, Ni is the hardest one to tell.

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  10. #20
    Junior Member Hildur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    Then you'll see insulting, arrogant shit like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hildur View Post
    Aren't you charming. I buy the Ti.
    Well, at least you have MY type figured out.

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