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  1. #1
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    Default Keirsey Role Variant Supremacy

    In my opinion David Keirsey in his titles for each of his role variants clearly favored the NTs over all of the other temperaments and hence I think he was a supremecist because pretty much everybody would rather be a Mastermind or an Inventor rather than a Supervisor or a Provider. Some of his titles clearly sound better than others. Perhaps they should be renamed more fairly.

    Keirsey's Role Variant Titles for each type with = for okay, - for underrated, and + for overrated:
    ENFJ = Teacher (okay)
    INFJ - Counselor (could be Sage or Prophet)
    ENFP = Champion (okay)
    INFP - Healer (could be Mystic or Spiritualist)
    ENTJ + Fieldmarshal (wow a Glorious Leader)
    INTJ + Mastermind (wow a Glorious Strategist)
    ENTP + Inventor (wow a Grand Creator)
    INTP + Architect (wow a Grand Designer)
    ESTJ - Supervisor (could be Executive or Director)
    ISTJ - Inspector (could be Actuary or Logician)
    ESFJ - Provider (could be Shepherd or Benefactor)
    ISFJ - Protector (could be Knight or Crusader)
    ESTP - Promoter (could be Entrepreneur or Manager)
    ISTP = Crafter (okay)
    ESFP - Performer (could be Entertainer or Professional)
    ISFP = Composer (okay)

  2. #2
    Riva
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    Keirsey really did go down on his knees for the NTs. he probably could be blamed for the N superiority that exist in some descriptions and forums. Frankly I believe that giving names was a horrible idea to begin with.

  3. #3
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I like the two-part descriptors (does anyone know who authored these?) better. They're harder to remember, but if you can remember them, they're useful.

    ISTJ Planner Inspector ISFJ Protector Supporter INFJ Foreseer Developer INTJ Conceptualizer Director
    ISTP Anaylzer Operator ISFP Composer Producer INFP Harmonizer Clarifier INTP Designer Theorist
    ESTP Promoter Executor ESFP Motivator Presenter ENFP Discoverer Advocate ENTP Explorer Inventor
    ESTJ Implementer Supervisor ESFJ Facilitator Caretaker ENFJ Envisioner Mentor ENTJ Strategist Mobilizer

    Tables!

    I agree that the Keirsey ones are slanted... I also do not really fully agree with the NT/NF and SJ/SP divisions. I understand it theoretically, but I'm not sure they really play out. I think we could easily have NJ Envisioners, NP Conceptualists, SF Humanists and ST Tacticians. Or whatever better names someone could come up with.

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    @skylights I believe it was Dario Nardi who invented those titles you posted but idk.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    skylights I believe it was Dario Nardi who invented those titles you posted but idk.
    Berens and Nardi or one of them. I like those names better than Keirsey ones, names are pretty dumb but I have to admit, Beren's names helped me imagine what types actually produce.

  6. #6
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I like Interaction Style / temperament combinations (and classic temperament, of course):

    Type Keirsey Berens Galen
    ISTJ Contender Guardian Chart the Course™ Stabilizer™ Melancholy Melancholy
    ISFJ Responder Guardian Behind the Scenes™ Stabilizer™ Phlegmatic Melancholy
    INFJ Contender Idealist Chart the Course™ Catalyst™ Melancholy Phlegmatic
    INTJ Contender Rational Chart the Course™ Theorist™ Melancholy Choleric
    ISTP Contender Artisan Chart the Course™ Improviser™ Melancholy Sanguine
    ISFP Responder Artisan Behind the Scenes™ Improviser™ Phlegmatic Sanguine
    INFP Responder Idealist Behind the Scenes™ Catalyst™ Phlegmatic Phlegmatic
    INTP Responder Rational Behind the Scenes™ Theorist™ Phlegmatic Choleric
    ESTP Initiator Artisan In Charge™ Improviser™ Choleric Sanguine
    ESFP Coworker Artisan Get Things Going™ Improviser™ Sanguine Sanguine
    ENFP Coworker Idealist Get Things Going™ Catalyst™ Sanguine Phlegmatic
    ENTP Coworker Rational Get Things Going™ Theorist™ Sanguine Choleric
    ESTJ Initiator Guardian In Charge™ Stabilizer™ Choleric Melancholy
    ESFJ Coworker Guardian Get Things Going™ Stabilizer™ Sanguine Melancholy
    ENFJ Initiator Idealist In Charge™ Catalyst™ Choleric Phlegmatic
    ENTJ Initiator Rational In Charge™ Theorist™ Choleric Choleric

    I think those are informative of what they types are like. All you have to understand are eight different type group profiles (the four temperaments and four Interaction Styles), and then put them together.
    I wonder why neither Keirsey nor Berens simply used those (and since all of Berens' type names are two part, they sort of have a similar ring). Now, Keirsey's latest book (in which he's dropped the type codes), he has a whole bunch of new names, combining the skills set (Diplomatic, Strategic, Tactical, Logistical) with the interaction role, in addition to the single word names.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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    INTJ - The Mastermind Personality Type.

  8. #8
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    He really was getting off on INTJs. (Seriously? Masterminds?)
    I really like cats and food.

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    He really was getting off on INTJs. (Seriously? Masterminds?)
    As an INTJ, even I don't like that title. Too grandiose, and overshadows the reality of how/who we are. Some author calls us "scientists", which I much prefer.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    In my opinion David Keirsey in his titles for each of his role variants clearly favored the NTs over all of the other temperaments and hence I think he was a supremecist because pretty much everybody would rather be a Mastermind or an Inventor rather than a Supervisor or a Provider. Some of his titles clearly sound better than others. Perhaps they should be renamed more fairly.

    Keirsey's Role Variant Titles for each type with = for okay, - for underrated, and + for overrated:
    ENFJ = Teacher (okay)
    INFJ - Counselor (could be Sage or Prophet)
    ENFP = Champion (okay)
    INFP - Healer (could be Mystic or Spiritualist)
    ENTJ + Fieldmarshal (wow a Glorious Leader)
    INTJ + Mastermind (wow a Glorious Strategist)
    ENTP + Inventor (wow a Grand Creator)
    INTP + Architect (wow a Grand Designer)
    ESTJ - Supervisor (could be Executive or Director)
    ISTJ - Inspector (could be Actuary or Logician)
    ESFJ - Provider (could be Shepherd or Benefactor)
    ISFJ - Protector (could be Knight or Crusader)
    ESTP - Promoter (could be Entrepreneur or Manager)
    ISTP = Crafter (okay)
    ESFP - Performer (could be Entertainer or Professional)
    ISFP = Composer (okay)
    The real question is, why have subtitles at all that are clearly misleading anyway since type does not define the role or interests for a person or what function they play in society? Like, why the fuck would I want to see myself as a healer? I'm a destroyer, not a healer (5w4 mindset with strong connection to 8 + fix). Good thing I'm an INTP in Keirsey land. At least architect is a title I can accept.

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