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  1. #31
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Just because they're more romantic, doesn't mean they deserve a more legendary/romantic title. That's where the bias comes from in the first place!
    I mean, hell, I'm pretty sure every type glorifies themselves in their imagination somehow. (That's why I suggested "Guardian" as a romantic ESTJ title, not just because it's already been used for ESTJs, but because the idea of fighting for Justice and All That Is Right is something that I feel ESTJs would easily relate to.) So why deprive the rest of us of that glorification, so long as we're giving it to the NFs? You can keep your Paladin title if the rest of us get rough equivalents.
    MBTI type bias usually comes from this sort of reasoning -- i.e. it's fine for these type descriptions and type names to be tonally different, because TECHNICALLY they're still accurate. Nonetheless, as an SJ, I look at the SJ type names and wonder why we got the boring office-job names when everyone else got either dramatic/artsy ones (SP), romantic/"legendary" ones (NF), or epic/"genius" ones (NT). It doesn't matter if NTs are more likely to want intellectual work, or if NFs are more romantic, or if SPs really do all want to work with their hands (which I'm highly skeptical about). From where I see it, the only way to get rid of type bias is to describe each type on equal terms. No one type should be called a legendary figure without every other type being one as well, because no type is more legendary than any other. Otherwise, what you get is: Artists, Craftsmen, Scientific Geniuses, Psychics, Poetic Innovators... and office lackeys. As if NFs, NTs, and SPs couldn't just as easily be office lackeys. (Which is why I referenced the other naming systems posted on the first page, as being more fair: they all have the same "professional" tone, and are thus more fair and equal.)
    okay, what do you suggest for some SJ titles? (personally, I feel "Guardian" works a little better for ISTJ)
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  2. #32
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    okay, what do you suggest for some SJ titles? (personally, I feel "Guardian" works a little better for ISTJ)
    Like I said before: I like the ones on page 1 of the thread, from Eric B and skylights. I'd need to think for a bit to come up with more romanticized ones for SJs.
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  3. #33
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Okay -- question or debate these if you like. Most were taken from other sources. I couldn't come up with any SP ones (since 99% of existing SP titles are total crap, and I don't have a good understanding of Se at all) -- or a more action-oriented INFP one.

    ENTJ: The Commander
    ENTP: The Conceptualizer
    INTJ: The Strategist
    INTP: The Logician

    ENFJ: The Motivator/The Inspirer
    ENFP: The Advocate
    INFJ: The Counselor
    INFP: The Idealist

    ESFJ: The Benefactor
    ESTJ: The Arbiter/The Justice
    ISFJ: The Protector
    ISTJ: The Sentinel
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Okay -- question or debate these if you like. Most were taken from other sources. I couldn't come up with any SP ones (since 99% of existing SP titles are total crap, and I don't have a good understanding of Se at all) -- or a more action-oriented INFP one.

    ENTJ: The Commander
    ENTP: The Conceptualizer
    INTJ: The Strategist
    INTP: The Logician

    ENFJ: The Motivator/The Inspirer
    ENFP: The Advocate
    INFJ: The Counselor
    INFP: The Idealist

    ESFJ: The Benefactor
    ESTJ: The Arbiter/The Justice
    ISFJ: The Protector
    ISTJ: The Sentinel
    I think ISFPs are called "artists" because from a behavioral perspective we're viewed as the "artistic temperament." That's why PTypes calls ISFP the cyclothymic (a nice word for mild bipolar behavior or fits of mania and depression, being moody and up and down) and ambiverted (again, up and down, friendly and social and withdrawn and alone) type. Going out into the world, then going back in to write or paint or sing or something, in some cases just going back to "real life" in less creative ISFPs, after going on adventures. PTypes also says while ISFPs are relationship oriented, they still put relationships, marriage, or children secondary to either their creative pursuits or their freedom. I identify with all of this.

    Personality Pages also talks about ISFPs being loyal yet having this inherent need to wander or occasionally break free and run off to Vegas or somethiing.

    Keirsey talks about ISFP being a loyal mate, who after raising a family may disappear into the mountains to paint alone after the children are gone.

    I like PTypes ISFP the best.

    And I'm okay with ISFP being called The Artist for that reason, more so than The Composer, because it's just what people used to call the "artistic temperament" ...passionate, quirky people who tend to run off alone or shut themselves away but still also come out into the world and need people, instead of being entirely solitary.

    I also think ESFP Performer is good.

    I dispute more the terms like ISTP being called a Mechanic. WTF is that.

  5. #35
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Okay -- question or debate these if you like. Most were taken from other sources. I couldn't come up with any SP ones (since 99% of existing SP titles are total crap, and I don't have a good understanding of Se at all) -- or a more action-oriented INFP one.
    I have an ESTP 6w7 so/sp friend who is totally a promoter. He works for a local politician.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    And I'm okay with ISFP being called The Artist for that reason, more so than The Composer, because it's just what people used to call the "artistic temperament" ...passionate, quirky people who tend to run off alone or shut themselves away but still also come out into the world and need people, instead of being entirely solitary.
    Sounds about right. In my (somewhat limited) experience, ISFPs tend to be artistic in some field or other, whether it be fashion, music, painting, or whatever.

    I also think ESFP Performer is good.
    Yeah. I think I know three. Two are performers full time, and the other is part time/as a hobby.

    I dispute more the terms like ISTP being called a Mechanic. WTF is that.
    My dad is an ISTP and he works in a mechanical field. I have one ISTP firend who is a Construction Mechanic First in the Seabees. I have another ISTP friend who likes to work on cars and make knives. He made his own forge out of a gas grill and a vacuum cleaner.
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  6. #36
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    ENFP ~ The Paladin
    Real narcissistic there.

    ESTP ~ The Opportunist
    You must not like ESTPs very much.

    Edit: As for my contribution to this thread, I think that the ESTP one should be changed from Opportunist to Marshal (since they're in the thick of things). ENTJ should be changed to General (since they're the ones that oversee everything). I don't really have a problem with any other names.

    ENFPs don't strike me as Paladin-ish. To me Paladins are the champions of the Light, have a strong code of what's right and wrong and they would heal, punish or protect those who fall or don't fall under this code. ENFPs don't strike me as the kind that follow through with their punishments. That title would be more fitting for ESTJs.

    Totally generalizing here -- there might be some who follow through and some who don't, but most of the ones I've seen don't because they're too nice.

    If anything I think ENFPs should be "Inspirer" or "Bard" or something.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member PimpinMcBoltage's Avatar
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    Actually it's more like that Ne doms are the opportunists, and the Se doms are the hedonists. lol. Ne is an extremely opportunistic function, more so than Se actually. Though I wouldn't necessarily call all Ne doms opportunists in a negative way though, neither would I view Se doms as all of them being graceful hedonistists. Actually it's very safe to call the ENTP (Ne-Te or just Ne-T) the most adapted at being an opportunist. So calling them that would flatter them, and be kind of negative sounding. So it's a win-win really.

    I'd call the ESTJ as the scientist, not the INTJ actually. Most science is conducted in an objective way, and is largely based on materialistic and empirical evidence (sensation). Calling the INTJ a strategist is fine though. IMO.
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  8. #38
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    Real narcissistic there.
    not denying it


    You must not like ESTPs very much.
    I don't

    Edit: As for my contribution to this thread, I think that the ESTP one should be changed from Opportunist to Marshal (since they're in the thick of things). ENTJ should be changed to General (since they're the ones that oversee everything). I don't really have a problem with any other names.
    - your ESTP title works
    - however, many ENTJs prefer to direct their own systems rather than people (for example, many wealthy stock traders and venture capitalists are ENTJs)

    ENFPs don't strike me as Paladin-ish. To me Paladins are the champions of the Light, have a strong code of what's right and wrong and they would heal, punish or protect those who fall or don't fall under this code. ENFPs don't strike me as the kind that follow through with their punishments. That title would be more fitting for ESTJs.
    Totally generalizing here -- there might be some who follow through and some who don't, but most of the ones I've seen don't because they're too nice.
    - this an ENFP with a 1 fix perfectly. we are generally not the bubbly, conflict avoidant, rainbows & unicorns, goofy entertainer descriptions make us out to be. if you read Jung's descriptions of Ne doms, they tend to be quite aggressive which, coupled with Fi and Te makes many ENFPs ferocious justice fighters.
    - nonsense, ENFPs will punish the shit out of you if you cross our values

    If anything I think ENFPs should be "Inspirer" or "Bard" or something.
    - "Inspirer" is too social
    - Bard could easily apply to any NF
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  9. #39
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Okay -- question or debate these if you like. Most were taken from other sources. I couldn't come up with any SP ones (since 99% of existing SP titles are total crap, and I don't have a good understanding of Se at all) -- or a more action-oriented INFP one.

    ENTJ: The Commander
    ENTP: The Conceptualizer
    INTJ: The Strategist
    INTP: The Logician

    ENFJ: The Motivator/The Inspirer
    ENFP: The Advocate
    INFJ: The Counselor
    INFP: The Idealist

    ESFJ: The Benefactor
    ESTJ: The Arbiter/The Justice
    ISFJ: The Protector
    ISTJ: The Sentinel
    Elfboy approves this message
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #40
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I don't
    You suck.

    - this an ENFP with a 1 fix perfectly. we are generally not the bubbly, conflict avoidant, rainbows & unicorns, goofy entertainer descriptions make us out to be. if you read Jung's descriptions of Ne doms, they tend to be quite aggressive which, coupled with Fi and Te makes many ENFPs ferocious justice fighters.
    Not all ENFPs are 1s, and it doesn't seem to be a likely combination. 1s to me are usually Js.

    Maybe ENFP 1s are like Holy Paladins. Retribution Paladins are ESTJs and Protection Paladins are ISTJs. MAYBE.

    - "Inspirer" is too social
    - Bard could easily apply to any NF
    Maybe.
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