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View Poll Results: FPs: Do You Feel Introverted Feeling Is Sourced Within Your Chest?

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  • Yes

    9 37.50%
  • Somewhat

    7 29.17%
  • No

    8 33.33%
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  1. #101
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    no it's in my stomach
    Was this an anxiety question?
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  2. #102
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    You sound just like my husband. lol
    Thanks. I think.

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  3. #103
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    Ok, so I said I was going to post my thinking, so here it is:

    Studying the enneagram over the last several months, one of the major issues for 6s is that we supposedly lose connection with our source, with our own inner authority. Furthermore, in Claudio Naranjo's book 'Character and Neurosis', he says that the Jungian type most resembling the enneagram 6 is the ENTJ (frankly, I think Naranjo seems to have a poor understanding of MBTI/Jung, and that his MBTI-Enneagram correlations are poor, but I thought this one was actually pretty decent). So, these two observations got me thinking: it seems like part of the enneagram 6s problem, at least when it comes to TJs, would be a loss of connection with their source, their own inner authority, their Fi.

    In large part, I came to this hypothesis while in a yoga class on a Saturday morning, when, about an hour into the class, I had a profound realization, and I sort of just let go of trying to make my practice "objectively perfect", to "conform to some external standard of correctness" (both very Te), and just said "fuck it" and started listening to my own internal guide (very Fi) (this is a lesson my instructor continuously preaches to his class).

    Anyway, it's a subtle shift, and one I could probably speak to in more detail, but one of the main qualities that changed was that I got out of my head, and into my gut/chest (kind of in both the solar plexus region [the yellow chakra], as well as higher up in my chest [the green chakra]). This sensation was similar to what is described in the enneagram books, as a way for enneagram 6s to get out of their heads and into their bodies, and I carried it with me pretty steadily for the next couple weeks (while walking around, it also felt like the orange [gut] chakra was part of it all as well).

    It all reminded me of a feeling I'd had back in my last year of college, around the time I came out of what very much resembled what Jung describes here, and which was probably one of the best years of my life. I've described it in pretty good detail here before, and I've often associated this "going under" and "coming back up" with the development of my Fi and Se (i.e., in typological terms: the shadow). I don't know what happened exactly, but I think over the next several years I kind of lost contact, at least to the degree I'd had during that year, with that inner authority, and the feeling I was now experiencing was the strongest connection with that source I remembered feeling since that last year of college.

    Anyway, this is why I'd been thinking about starting this thread for several months.

  4. #104
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Fi is at my core but it's not stationary, it flows.
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  5. #105
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.

    With Fi, on the other hand, feeling doesn't have the labels/names. I find it interesting with all of the NFPs have colors and places for their feelings. Oro has asked me the same, and I said I didn't have any colors or places. I just feel, kind of all over, though certain emotions such as anxiety tend to center around my heart. These colors and places aren't really "names" though; it seems to be some kind of manifestation of tert/inf Si, mapping feelings onto Si-ish mental impressions. It appears to be much more difficult for Fi to determine the "real reason" for a feeling. Once Fi types determine that "real reason", they have a very precise idea of what the feeling is, and will recognize it immediately should it resurface, but they'd still be hard-pressed to say anything definitively concrete about it in the way Fe/Ti seems to be able to.

    In my INTJ case, I just feel the feeling. It takes a long while, however, to identify what I'm feeling, and it's remarkably difficult to determine why I'm feeling it. Usually I have to let it "settle", and once it does, it makes sense. But on the fly, they tend to be confusing, so I postpone dealing with them. Having an ENFP girlfriend, I have to be more aware of these: she can pick up on my moods, where other people just assume I'm being cold/distant/spaced-out. I've had to learn to say, "Yeah, I'm kind of upset, but I'm not sure about what. I'll let you know when I figure it out, OK?"

    Like the cat in my sig, I can't take the feeling apart and see what it is. I have to let it crawl around in my mind for a while and watch it. Once I've watched it for long enough, I know it, more or less.

    [EDIT - I do have a tendency to associate feeling with music, but not particular songs or themes. The music writes itself.]
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  6. #106
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.

    In my INTJ case, I just feel the feeling. It takes a long while, however, to identify what I'm feeling, and it's remarkably difficult to determine why I'm feeling it. Usually I have to let it "settle", and once it does, it makes sense. But on the fly, they tend to be confusing, so I postpone dealing with them. Having an ENFP girlfriend, I have to be more aware of these: she can pick up on my moods, where other people just assume I'm being cold/distant/spaced-out. I've had to learn to say, "Yeah, I'm kind of upset, but I'm not sure about what. I'll let you know when I figure it out, OK?"

    [EDIT - I do have a tendency to associate feeling with music, but not particular songs or themes. The music writes itself.]
    All of the above makes sense. Most of the Fe users I know are INTP, and they certainly do avoid talking about their feelings. If anything, I am more willing to do so, but find it difficult. For me, the middle falls out. I feel the feeling, and can point to what caused it (e.g. something bad that happened at work), but can't understand or even name the feeling itself, especially if it involves several emotions all intertwined. This is why I usually bypass that step entirely and focus on the causal events. Those are external, I can see them, describe them, and ultimately do something about them. Your observation about music is on target, too.
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  7. #107
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.
    That makes a lot of sense, ime. I tend to find the why part pretty intelligible. Hardest part is actually getting aware of the feeling, as I find it hard to acknowledge a feeling before I'm able to make a cause/consequence connection that justifies and supports it. The feeling has usually been lingering unnoticed for a while before I register it.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Why only the FPs?
    It's cause they have more of "the spirit" than you TJ, now go back to your evil lair.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.

    With Fi, on the other hand, feeling doesn't have the labels/names. I find it interesting with all of the NFPs have colors and places for their feelings. Oro has asked me the same, and I said I didn't have any colors or places. I just feel, kind of all over, though certain emotions such as anxiety tend to center around my heart. These colors and places aren't really "names" though; it seems to be some kind of manifestation of tert/inf Si, mapping feelings onto Si-ish mental impressions. It appears to be much more difficult for Fi to determine the "real reason" for a feeling. Once Fi types determine that "real reason", they have a very precise idea of what the feeling is, and will recognize it immediately should it resurface, but they'd still be hard-pressed to say anything definitively concrete about it in the way Fe/Ti seems to be able to.

    In my INTJ case, I just feel the feeling. It takes a long while, however, to identify what I'm feeling, and it's remarkably difficult to determine why I'm feeling it. Usually I have to let it "settle", and once it does, it makes sense. But on the fly, they tend to be confusing, so I postpone dealing with them. Having an ENFP girlfriend, I have to be more aware of these: she can pick up on my moods, where other people just assume I'm being cold/distant/spaced-out. I've had to learn to say, "Yeah, I'm kind of upset, but I'm not sure about what. I'll let you know when I figure it out, OK?"

    Like the cat in my sig, I can't take the feeling apart and see what it is. I have to let it crawl around in my mind for a while and watch it. Once I've watched it for long enough, I know it, more or less.

    [EDIT - I do have a tendency to associate feeling with music, but not particular songs or themes. The music writes itself.]
    Sometimes I know why I feel something sometimes I dont. I dont feel very often though so its interesting when it happens. I get the impression that this is very different then the people that surround me. For example my son feels songs and then will judge his feeling either positively or negatively. I dont feel songs. They make me think, not feel. And sometimes they end up tied to people they make me think of. Music like clasical I dont feel either, but I love the how the sounds flow together, especially pianos.

    When I do feel it is usually easy for me to pinpoint. The problem is sometimes when I get really beat down I dont know why. Its kinda like a form of depression, but its usually temporary(an hour to a couple hours before I get out of it). I dont normally get depressed for very long. I avoid that feeling and just redirect myself and it goes away. I dont really deal with it or understand it. Sometimes I can even pin it to an exact event/situation, but dont know what to do to fix it...change how I feel other then just becoming absorbed in something else. I know I bottle up feelings, but I am not the type of person who will focus on a feeling and all the things associated with and just stew in it. I just experience it and then things can add to it until the bottle overflows. My thoughts I can stew in though. But I dont try to find a deep meaning to my feelings, they just are and they are simple...doesnt mean they are deep, but I dont try to find some deep underlying meaning like others may try to do.

    Ne/Si likes to create maps, I dont. I like to just understand and know. The map creates itself overtime by understanding and experience.

    edit: One example is when I was going through some extremely rough times I laid in bed with a song on repeat and my mind was just processing and running through things. Just everything that was happening to me at the time. My feelings were firing off, but I was lost in thought. I also had issues with hyper-tension (my low would get really close to my high, the sensation of this hypertension happened at the dentist once when my ex walked into the office and I was told I was at stage 2 hyper-tension). When I felt it coming on I would just lay there and focus on it mentally, try a few things like getting up and walking around, and then just lay back in bed. When I focused it didnt seem to get worse. I could even focus my mind on the things that caused the situation I was in and it didnt get worse. This was an extremely hard time for me and was considering letting everything go(not suicidal, just all of lifes responsibilities). I never did because as I ran it through my mind I didnt feel like dealing with cleaning up everything it would have screwed up. I had no desire to let everything go and never build it back up again, I just wanted out of where I was. When I become emotional I tend to just walk off on my own and deal with it, usually just experience it. Its almost like I am a seperate entity then my feelings.

    As a non Fi person I feel in my chest mostly.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #110
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.
    Once I know what I'm feeling, yes, I am able to articulate it and work through it; talk about it with someone if it also affects them/ is tied to our relationship.

    But there can definitely be long lag times before I get to the point where I really know what's going on. I tend to think it's tightly wound with Ni, whenever this occurs... that I'm simultaneously waiting for the 'ping' of Ni to know what direction to take or what's wrong. For example, from April-July I was in a highly transitory state of confusion/uncertainty, knowing I was unhappy on some level but not sure why or what else was tied to all of that, or what exactly I wanted/needed to do. It wasn't until the end of July that I finally realized what was going on and acknowledged some things and reached internal clarity and direction.

    I might be able to name an element of what I'm feeling - 'i.e. confusion' - but like you I'll also tell the person that I'm trying to figure things out and I can't talk about anything atm, because I simply don't know what exactly is going on atm and haven't solidified yet.
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