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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    What numerical bias? Exactly how much bias is there? Can you give a percentage?
    There is a 69% bias.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The more time goes by, the more I agree that S is really where it's at.


  3. #53
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    There is a 69% bias.
    But isn't that true of anything?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #54
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Hmm im wondering if, once you had decided on a type or taken a test, that staying or joining such forums as these is even worth it if you typed as an S type.....or at least an SF type.

    Because it surely cant be beneficial to a feeling type once they understand how they are perceived, even if it is a mainly decent forum such as this one. Afterall the point of this theory is to induce a level of understanding and consideration both of yourself and of others. If you dont agree that this is the point read Gift's Differing and Jung's Psycological Types.

    So if we take this induction to consideration and understanding at face value, we know that there is nothing wrong with disliking something because it makes you feel bad, especially when it is something unnecessary and has nothing to do with truth. The point being that such an environment would merely cause misery to a person and so make them worse than when they came in, undermining the objective in the first place.

    Of course this is not really my view, but it was an idea. Also im not really assuming the perceptions of individuals here, once again...just an idea.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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  5. #55
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The more time goes by, the more I agree that S is really where it's at.



    Obviously I can't speak for all Sensors, but my iNtuitor friends have generally been much more receptive to the MBTI than my Sensor friends have been. Some examples of their reasons:

    ISFJ (female, women's studies major): "God, I HATE the MBTI. I took the test and it told me that I should be a stewardess, or something. It was offensive."*
    ISTJ (female, math major): "It's a form of stereotyping! It's not scientifically accurate! COMPLETELY speculative."
    ISFP (female, goes to RISD): "I don't need someone else to tell me who I am. I know who I am."

    In theory, I'm guessing that a lot of Sensors either wouldn't see the practical possibilities of the test, or wouldn't be interested in it enough to seek out more evidence on a forum, or would be annoyed by internet forum culture in general (which I find common; SJs aren't huge fans of NT trolling and pseudo-trolling, and would probably prefer more rule of law than internet forums allow for). I, for one, would never have joined this forum were I not motivated to Te-based action by idiotic anti-ESTJ stereotyping here. Were it not for that, I doubt that I ever would have joined any MBTI forum, let alone this one. It was a fluke.


    * I'll bet this is a pretty common reason with SJs and STPs; our type descriptions aren't the best. It's common knowledge that NT descriptions make them look like scientific geniuses, SFP descriptions make them look like artistic geniuses, NF descriptions make them look psychic, whereas SJs and STPs are relegated to manual labor and and the corporate rat race.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Hmm im wondering if, once you had decided on a type or taken a test, that staying or joining such forums as these is even worth it if you typed as an S type.....or at least an SF type.

    Because it surely cant be beneficial to a feeling type once they understand how they are perceived, even if it is a mainly decent forum such as this one. Afterall the point of this theory is to induce a level of understanding and consideration both of yourself and of others. If you dont agree that this is the point read Gift's Differing and Jung's Psycological Types.

    So if we take this induction to consideration and understanding at face value, we know that there is nothing wrong with disliking something because it makes you feel bad, especially when it is something unnecessary and has nothing to do with truth. The point being that such an environment would merely cause misery to a person and so make them worse than when they came in, undermining the objective in the first place.

    Of course this is not really my view, but it was an idea. Also im not really assuming the perceptions of individuals here, once again...just an idea.
    I'm not criticizing you here, just responding to you as a more thoughtful poster with fewer one-line responses that detract from discussion. While everybody on this forum is into typology, more or less and sometimes on an expert level, I'm seeing that little or no ability to understand "where people are coming from" is very common.

    If, for example, I was one of those SF types who thinks I already have knowledge of people - I simply have a knack for it - what the hell do I need some artificial typology for?

    If, for example, I am a Johnny-one-note in how I deal with most people, such that I use one method and that works for me, what the hell do I need typology for?

    This to me is common sense. And yet what I find on this forum is the assumption that just because everybody around here is into typology therefore everybody else is, or at least they should be. So I think your idea that typology exists to help people understand one another, while true, has been proven to fail. Typology has failed to produce the goods.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #57
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post


    Obviously I can't speak for all Sensors, but my iNtuitor friends have generally been much more receptive to the MBTI than my Sensor friends have been. Some examples of their reasons:

    ISFJ (female, women's studies major): "God, I HATE the MBTI. I took the test and it told me that I should be a stewardess, or something. It was offensive."*
    ISTJ (female, math major): "It's a form of stereotyping! It's not scientifically accurate! COMPLETELY speculative."
    ISFP (female, goes to RISD): "I don't need someone else to tell me who I am. I know who I am."

    But from a more theoretical point of view, not necessarily based on evidence, I'm guessing that a lot of Sensors either wouldn't see the practical possibilities of the test, or wouldn't be interested in it enough to seek out more evidence on a forum, or would be annoyed by internet forum culture in general (which I find common; SJs aren't huge fans of NT trolling and pseudo-trolling, and would probably prefer more rule of law than internet forums allow for). I, for one, would never have joined this forum were I not motivated to Te-based action by idiotic anti-ESTJ stereotyping here. Were it not for that, I doubt that I ever would have joined any MBTI forum, let alone this one. It was a fluke.


    * I'll bet this is a pretty common reason with SJs and STPs; our type descriptions aren't the best. It's common knowledge that NT descriptions make them look like scientific geniuses, SFP descriptions make them look like artistic geniuses, NF descriptions make them look psychic, whereas SJs and STPs are relegated to manual labor and and the corporate rat race.
    This is generally true, ime, although it can also happen with Ns (my INFJ friend: "why do you have to put people in boxes, everyone is SO UNIQUE zomg" ).

    I think the descriptions are one of the biggest problems, actually. Honestly, I think it's very likely that I would have rejected MBTI completely as a bunch of horseshit if I'd typed accurately on their tests and read all about my future career as a mechanic (nothing wrong with them, but not even remotely interested) and all this nonsense about being unimaginative, thrill-seeking cretins who can't see further than tomorrow. I happened to type as INTP from the questions, almost certainly because I view myself as intelligent (and it took me a few years to figure out that I was mistaken**). The description for that isn't completely accurate for me, of course, but it was close enough to get me interested in exploring further.

    I would actually say that the INTP descriptions online describe me far better than the ISTP ones, although I am fairly certain that I am in fact ISTP. Just not the 80-IQ ISTP typically found in those descriptions.

    So, it's almost certainly a combination of many factors. Biased attitude on the forums chasing people away, perhaps. Fewer Ss around here to identify with, certainly. Mistyping, certainly some (I would guess 10-25% are mistyped, but not all of those are S). Typology being too abstract or not scientific enough is probably a factor. Negative/inaccurate descriptions almost certainly lead Ss to reject MBTI altogether or to mistype as Ns. Ss are probably more likely to be involved in RL activities and have less time for internet things. Ss are probably less interested in forums without clear practical purposes. Many people come here from other type forums where there is much worse S bias. etc, etc, etc.

    Many things are likely to affect the ratio, and when they all act (either additively or synergistically), you get the dramatic differences in ratios that you see here.

    edit: **ha! I just noticed this bit. mistaken about being INTP, not mistaken about being intelligent. Although sometimes I wonder...
    -end of thread-

  8. #58
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    This is generally true, ime, although it can also happen with Ns (my INFJ friend: "why do you have to put people in boxes, everyone is SO UNIQUE zomg" ).

    I think the descriptions are one of the biggest problems, actually. Honestly, I think it's very likely that I would have rejected MBTI completely as a bunch of horseshit if I'd typed accurately on their tests and read all about my future career as a mechanic (nothing wrong with them, but not even remotely interested) and all this nonsense about being unimaginative, thrill-seeking cretins who can't see further than tomorrow. I happened to type as INTP from the questions, almost certainly because I view myself as intelligent (and it took me a few years to figure out that I was mistaken). The description for that isn't completely accurate for me, of course, but it was close enough to get me interested in exploring further.

    I would actually say that the INTP descriptions online describe me far better than the ISTP ones, although I am fairly certain that I am in fact ISTP. Just not the 80-IQ ISTP typically found in those descriptions.

    So, it's almost certainly a combination of many factors. Biased attitude on the forums chasing people away, perhaps. Fewer Ss around here to identify with, certainly. Mistyping, certainly some (I would guess 10-25% are mistyped, but not all of those are S). Typology being too abstract or not scientific enough is probably a factor. Negative/inaccurate descriptions almost certainly lead Ss to reject MBTI altogether or to mistype as Ns. Ss are probably more likely to be involved in RL activities and have less time for internet things. Ss are probably less interested in forums without clear practical purposes. Many people come here from other type forums where there is much worse S bias. etc, etc, etc.

    Many things are likely to affect the ratio, and when they all act (either additively or synergistically), you get the dramatic differences in ratios that you see here.
    Those who disagree with me should also disagree with you. I bet they don't have the balls to.

    By the way, here is a page full of ISTP occupations. "Mechanic" is not listed, "airline mechanic" is. Ok I also see Mechanic listed with a hundred other occupations.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...33Iam1AA&pli=1

    I'm not sure where you got the 80-iq idea from, I don't know of any description pages that characterize any type by intelligence.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #59
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post

    Highlander, is it possible to see how many EXXPs there are or IXTX or even random letters? We could possibly use that to try to see how many undecided members there are.

    Of the 15,106 members that have signed up to be a member since the forum's inception, 43% do not have one of the valid 16 MBTI types. There is no way easy way to tell those who attempt to put a type which is not one of the 16 because there a lot of variations including nonsense types, partial MBTI types (e.g. with some Xs in there) or socionics types.

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  10. #60
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Those who disagree with me should also disagree with you. I bet they don't have the balls to.
    If I could see that you had a coherent argument, I would know whether I agreed with it. At this point, I'm unclear.

    By the way, here is a page full of ISTP occupations. "Mechanic" is not listed, "airline mechanic" is. Ok I also see Mechanic listed with a hundred other occupations.
    Thank you for your highly relevant uncited document which singehandedly negates my experiences with online ISTP descriptions, which is what I was discussing.
    I'm not sure where you got the 80-iq idea from, I don't know of any description pages that characterize any type by intelligence.
    Even an S can read between the lines, my friend. If you take a look at the online descriptions out there, I'm sure your 135 IQ can manage to parse a few implications from the literal text.
    -end of thread-

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