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  1. #11
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I think INFP Global Chatter going under might have something to do with all the INFPs?

    I also remember a spat where two ENTPs blew up at an ESTJ and that person stopped posting. This was way back in 2007. That was the most overt type bashing/feud Ive seen but it would have turned me off, too, from the forum if I were a newb S. Though I know some "S"s have complained here about more overt bias against S's or subtle N superiority?
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  2. #12
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The above indicates that 62% of the forum is INXX.
    Yes, and...? The larger the majority the more ridiculous it gets.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    So you think that all those people have their type wrong?
    Not all, but many.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    There are an abundance of sensors in there?
    Yes, I think so. Also extraverts.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    They would rather be introverts than extraverts?
    Yes. It is a forum trope to regard introversion as a form of superiority, both in terms of intelligence levels and depth of perception/thought/feelings.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    If I have my type wrong, why wouldn't I want to be an ESTP. It sounds like a lot more fun.
    Nobody picks their type that way. It would be disingenuous for, say, an ISFJ to claim they were ESTP. The descriptions cannot be reconciled because they are too unlike one another. But any INxx, particularly INxJ, would be easy. There are more traits in common between a true ISFJ and, say, an INFJ description than between ISFJ and ESTP. So it's less difficult to deceive oneself, which is the goal. The goal is not to deceive others. In fact, this process is not even conscious. Nobody even considers being ISFJ in the first place, whether they are or not, so they pick the closest N type.

    But why, you might ask, would an ISFJ want to be an INFJ and not an ESTP if they were just employing wishful thinking? Easy. On these forums in particular, introversion and any form of intuition are regarded as primary indicators of intelligence or intellectual capability, and those two things seem to be the main form of social currency 'round these parts.
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  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I think INFP Global Chatter going under might have something to do with all the INFPs?

    I also remember a spat where two ENTPs blew up at an ESTJ and that person stopped posting. This was way back in 2007. That was the most overt type bashing/feud Ive seen but it would have turned me off, too, from the forum if I were a newb S. Though I know some "S"s have complained here about more overt bias against S's or subtle N superiority?
    The N superiority is rampant to the point that nobody wants to identify as an S type. They're not even an option for consideration, or if they are, it's always the third or fourth option that's not really something they're truly considering.

    It's funny...on non-typology sites I've seen trends that fit into my theory. For instance, if the site is part of a culture that prizes intelligence or intellectualism (like any of the skepticsphere, or the StarCraft community...lol), there tends to be A LOT more self-identified Ns when the subject gets brought up. In intelligence neutral zones, where it's just not an issue and intellectual posturing is not the favored mode of communication, there tends to be more balance, but Ns still dominate (even when it's something ridiculously sensor-stereotypical, like art or car forums.) What does that say? It says either that there are fewer Ss on the internet despite their supposed number superiority IRL (which some foolios here would have us believe), or that there's something funky going on with the descriptions that's causing people to dismiss S as a possibility for themselves.
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  4. #14
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    I knew xSFJs were rare here
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  5. #15
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    On these forums in particular, introversion and any form of intuition are regarded as primary indicators of intelligence or intellectual capability, and those two things seem to be the main form of social currency 'round these parts.
    I understand your points but if a person takes an MBTI or Cognitive Functions test, couldn't it just as easily be wrong in the direction of E or S? Wouldn't the errors in the test cancel each other out? Or are you saying the tests are biased to give an I or N result? I wished I was an extravert all of the years I was growing up and well through my 20s. There is a strong cultural bias in the US towards extraversion being more acceptable. It permeates our society as well as the work environment I was at some training just a few months ago where we split up the room between extraverts and introverts. I was the sole person who walked to that other side, not at all ashamed as to where I was standing. Then after I walked over there perfectly content that there was this huge mass of people who were supposedly extraverts (which I knew they were all not), several began to creep halfway over to the introvert side - to indicate that maybe they were a bit in the middle between the two. If anything, I believe people would be more likely to say they are an extravert because it is much more socially acceptable. I think you probably are right about S vs. N. I think there are probably many people typed as Ns here that are Ss. I have no basis for thinking that way other than a gut feeling though.

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  6. #16
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    I think there's a real common test bias toward N's, and a tendency for people to perceive N's as smarter than S's. I think for that reason you're going to find more people self-type as N's. I think there are probably a lot of mistyped N's running around here.

    On top of that, as Mal suggested, I think S types are just generally less likely to be interested in MBTI.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

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  7. #17
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I understand your points but if a person takes an MBTI or Cognitive Functions test, couldn't it just as easily be wrong in the direction of E or S? Wouldn't the errors in the test cancel each other out? Or are you saying the tests are biased to give an I or N result?
    It depends on context, but since we were talking about the context of the forum, I'm pretty sure that the reasons I've already given PLUS (1) test savvy-ness, knowing how to pick for what you want to get, and (2) biased test questions are responsible. I can imagine that there's probably a scenario in which, for instance, people might be more prone to incorrectly self-typing as ESTJ. Like in a business setting or something. But I don't have any concrete examples of that, and I've never seen that happen anywhere on the internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I wished I was an extravert all of the years I was growing up and well through my 20s. There is a strong cultural bias in the US towards extraversion being more acceptable. It permeates our society as well as the work environment I was at some training just a few months ago where we split up the room between extraverts and introverts. I was the sole person who walked to that other side, not at all ashamed as to where I was standing. Then after I walked over there perfectly content that there was this huge mass of people who were supposedly extraverts (which I knew they were all not), several began to creep halfway over to the introvert side - to indicate that maybe they were a bit in the middle between the two. If anything, I believe people would be more likely to say they are an extravert because it is much more socially acceptable.
    Again, the setting matters. Interesting anecdote, though.

    I remember when we first took the MBTI in my college humanities course (I think it was some BS general "internship" seminar), we had to divide into groups based on type and there were a shitload of people in the INFP and INFJ groups. Why? Because most of the people in this class fancied themselves as intellectuals/writers/activists, and they picked accordingly (I particularly remember this one ridiculously stereotypical ESFP girl heading to the INFP table.) Hell, I even landed in INTP or INTJ, I can't remember. It was one of them, but I could only deceive myself for so long. The groupiness of this forum and some honest feedback IRL shook me out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think you probably are right about S vs. N. I think there are probably many people typed as Ns here that are Ss. I have no basis for thinking that way other than a gut feeling though.
    Well, think about it this way. Even if you couldn't provide a case that would convince each mistyped person you identified that they're mistyped, if you think about the forum as a whole, you'd have to agree that we see a fairly wide variety of personalities. Now, why is that? Why is there such a preponderance of the same types and yet such vastly different performances of these types between people? Of course there are going to be individual differences between true members of the same type, but would they really be to the extent that we regularly see here?
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  8. #18
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    Orangey, thanks for this.

    This is incredibly interesting..

  9. #19
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yes, and...? The larger the majority the more ridiculous it gets.



    Not all, but many.



    Yes, I think so. Also extraverts.



    Yes. It is a forum trope to regard introversion as a form of superiority, both in terms of intelligence levels and depth of perception/thought/feelings.



    Nobody picks their type that way. It would be disingenuous for, say, an ISFJ to claim they were ESTP. The descriptions cannot be reconciled because they are too unlike one another. But any INxx, particularly INxJ, would be easy. There are more traits in common between a true ISFJ and, say, an INFJ description than between ISFJ and ESTP. So it's less difficult to deceive oneself, which is the goal. The goal is not to deceive others. In fact, this process is not even conscious. Nobody even considers being ISFJ in the first place, whether they are or not, so they pick the closest N type.

    But why, you might ask, would an ISFJ want to be an INFJ and not an ESTP if they were just employing wishful thinking? Easy. On these forums in particular, introversion and any form of intuition are regarded as primary indicators of intelligence or intellectual capability, and those two things seem to be the main form of social currency 'round these parts.
    I was going to say something similar but you pretty much hit it on the head.....and buried it....and fooled Scotland Yard.

    The sad reality ive noticed is that the damage is done, the collective perceptions are in and the ballot boxes are closed. Opinions will never change on this theory and the understanding within it.

    N will always be iNtelligent.

    S will always be Stupid.

    I dont mind being stupid or intelligent of course since the quality of intelligence is not required to enjoy or even be successful at life, however you define successful. But it would be a gross naivity on my part to deny that many see worth in an individual in such places as this, based upon apparant perceived intelligence.

    However a person is better off not taking it personally, or at all. Just carry on and have done. Not that you shouldn't point it out from time to time, mainly that it will be frustrating how much you would be ignored, or criticised or 'shown how wrong you are'.

    Of course this isn't an assumption that because someone types as intuitive that they are necessarily going to have these ideas. I suppose it is the 'looks like a duck...quacks like a duck...' mentality that I find myself in disagreement with.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Another problem at least with E and I is the fact that it seems to me that some of the descriptions for Extroversion has people getting energy constantly from others whereas Introverts can deal with people, but then need to be alone to recharge. The problem with the definition is that Introversion has a closer definition to the average. After dealing with stressful situations and people, extroverts and introverts will want to be alone and recharge.

    While I do agree with Orangey and have seen her posts in the past, I am unsure of what to do with the idea. I am not going to argue with others about their types as I don't care or know enough and the general pointlessness of those debates. Many members have said in the past that there are more sensors here and point fingers at each other while sticking to their own bloated N's. This idea then leads to myself, while I do believe that I'm INFJ, how in fact do I know that I am not self-deceiving myself? Should I change to IXXJ and let other members decide how to view me (and unfortunately my arguments) while leaving doubt on both sides, bite the bullet and change it to ISTJ even though I feel I'll be deceiving others, or leave it as INFJ and live with my own doubt and others' doubts as I accuse others mentally of a mistake that I, myself, may be making? The best solution I've come up with so far has been to tell people when asked that I am hypothetically INFJ which still isn't ideal. Anyone have ideas on how to deal with that general situation? How do you truly determine your own type in spite of biases? If there are such strong biases present, are there truly types at all?

    Highlander, is it possible to see how many EXXPs there are or IXTX or even random letters? We could possibly use that to try to see how many undecided members there are.
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