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  1. #51
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That's a good question. I think it is a matter of focus. Maybe I can explain it this way -

    Ne doms seem very connected with what's going on around them. It is very much real time, more about ideas and options, discerning emerging patterns about what is going on and reading between the lines. You're fully engaged with the outside world on a minute by minute basis while coming up with these perceptions which are in a sense detached from that.

    An Ni dom is much more internally focused and not so connected to what's going on around them. You're converging all of these nebulous things you have in your head into a focused perception of a situation or what will happen in the future. You do it on your own. It is not so connected to what is going on in the outside world at any given moment.

    These things help to explain why an Ne dom will appear very engaging with others and their thoughts seem to fly all over the place. They're quick. An Ni dom will talk much less but when they do say something it will tend to be insightful. It takes them a while to synthesize or crystalize their thoughts. They are slower and since it is an internal process they are not so engaging. In person, I find interacting with Ne'ers to be exciting. They provide insights and ideas that help to provide the fuel which leads to my ultimate perspective.
    but...we're not actually. i mean that i don't think ne doms are very aware of what's going on around us. i think that's why we like sparkly...or unusual things so much because everything is always a haze...all of it just blending together and rarely focused on...but the sparkly things jump out at us.

    and yes...i get that our thoughts seem to be out of nowhere or scattered...but when we focus on an idea it seems to come into focus...which i was thinking is what you all were talking about. like perhaps it was sort reversed in each of us....but now i'm just confusing myself.

    just...when you all describe it you're saying you have an impression of what may happen...and then you gather data to confirm or deny
    and we gather many possible scenarios...but then focus on one and further define it...but...i guess in that defining process there is still a lot of ne bouncing going on.

    so...maybe the words are confusing me because they often lead to the same result?? ahhh!! i don't know!!

    i sincerely appreciate all of you all writing your thoughts on this tho...i'm going to let it marinate.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #52
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    No. What? No, still no. Inside the head is converging, outside the head is diverging. Inside I'm bringing things together, outside I'm itemising or distinguishing or allocating.

    Are you owning up to ESFP?
    haha! whatcha tryin to say?? i would happily own up to it if it were true but i'm pretty sure my se sucks.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #53
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    That's a bit of a conceit. Ni doms regularly omit the Si/Ne versions of data/analysis. There's plenty of ignorant people on both sides of the typological spectrum.

    What I do see, though, is that people of differing types who take the time and pay attention, actually can see both sides of an argument, and perhaps even discover that they agree, even though they were thinking about things in completely different ways.
    You're definitely right. That post was written from the frustration of me being angry at someone rather than me talking about people pluralized. See? I still haven't learned how to deal with that energy of sitting on my hands in a productive way yet.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #54
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    haha! whatcha tryin to say?? i would happily own up to it if it were true but i'm pretty sure my se sucks.
    Join us join us join us

    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    For what Ni feels like take a look at Fiona Apple's video posted in this thread. That explained it very well for me (even though it is not my natural function).
    Or if you prefer the original...
    (John ... Ni-dom? )

  6. #56
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I have this problem. When I was a child I had great confidence in myself and couldn't figure out why people were making dumb decisions, so I'd tell them they were wrong, and the problem was, they usually were, so it reinforced this, and no one likes a know-it-all. Then I matured and learned you can't predict the future, so I became too accepting of others' POV. A lot of others don't have strong intrapersonal intelligence, and I should've trusted my gut to know they were misreading themselves. Now I'm just at the phase where I'm learning that I don't have to explain myself to people when I don't buy their largely unfounded BS, and I'm learning that by being stronger at predicting outcomes, assessing risk, and navigating that space, it's not a shot at them, it's simply a strength of mine. They're probably better at lots of other things than I am, but I'm good at envisioning the domino fallout.

    But yeah, "distressing" is an appropriate adjective. It's tough to sit on your hands and bite your tongue after you've spoken up once and they aren't going to listen. I have no idea how to use this energy more productively. That's a maturity I haven't developed yet.


    I absolutely have this problem, FWIW. It also might be more gendered that females are taught/expected to defer.
    The same sort of events happened to me...I would listen to myself, others wouldn't see/understand/realize the truth and i took the more mature road...WELL IT TURNS OUT I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! GAHHHH! so just listen to you...not that you're trying to attack them or bring them down...you just have a strength...simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    It really was a revelation to me that Ni people do see some things differently that others truly don't see. I remember encountering a thread complaining about Ni people seeming impatient that others couldn't understand what they were explaining, yet they didn't offer sufficient details for them to do so. It occurred to me when I was reading it that it maybe just doesn't occur to them that not everyone sees what seems really obvious to them (as far envisioning the domino effect) and they would feel they were being insulting by explaining it.

    It's sort of like not realizing someone is colourblind and therefore not understanding that you may need to tell the person what colour something is. It is assumed that other people experience all the colours as we do and if those people aren't aware that they are colourblind, they can't ask someone to describe red etc.

    I'm not suggesting I have some kind of superpowers, but it honestly never occured to me that some of those "facts" about how things will turn out isn't all that clear to everyone and so I can't be hurt or upset at them for not getting something that matters to me or seeing something the wya I do.
    I still get mad at them asking because i feel like Ni is so hard to explain...i can't translate it...and then for some reason get that feeling that the person doesn't know me enough to know what i'm thinking/feeling....which i know is my own fault and is immature...but it is still frustrating...

    -this could also relate to that whole stereotype thing about NT's...how they "think they're superior" or whatever...cause that's when i start to fit the stereotype...and I'm actaully ok with looking like a "know it all" or whatever.

  7. #57
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I very much agree with the bolded items. On the creative front, I don't experience the frustration that you do. The way I create is to just start and then let things take shape. It's an iterative process of building pieces and cobbling them together. I don't have any kind of a clear vision as to what I'm going to create before I start. Writing and presentations are a couple of examples where I do this. The process can be painstakingly slow because I want perfection which involves a lot of revision.




    Generally, I agree with your statements on how the process works but I think it might take INFJs a longer time to come to conclusions than INTJs.



    I have a strong need to talk things through when there is conflict but it is for a very different reason. It's not because I'm trying to clarify how I think but to get things settled between the two of us - be open, honest, direct, try and see the other person's view, etc.



    I recall doing what you said in my late 20s. I would know people were wrong or stupid about something and it would greatly frustrate me. Even if I knew I was right, I often didn't say anything because I didn't want to be abrasive and piss people off with my concerns where I could not articulate my reasoning very well. It would make me look bad. Now, if I am able to have influence or more direct control because I know someone well, I tend to assert myself much more strongly about these things. With people I don't know well, I will tend to ask questions that help them arrive at the conclusions themselves. Still there are other times where I will repeat myself several times and somebody doesn't listen. This tends to happen with ESTJs for example. Other types, such as INTPs are much more open to input.
    That's an interesting way to go about things...In the bolded that is...I never thought about it that way...It may be because I just get to frustrated too quickly...but I guess I also don't know how i would ask questions and not sound condiscending maybe....sighs...people baaahh!


    Maybe we have learned to stifle some of those thoughts because we are surrounded by SJs and SPs, who think very differently as you say. I still run into situations where I will interject something and people will just kind of look at me confused - where did that come from? what do you mean? how does that relate to what we are discussing? It's like they are missing the whole point - the broader implications - I can't easily explain it within the context of the current dialogue. It just gets blurted out.



    I'm much more focused on seeing things that can go wrong in the future. Realize I'm also an Enneagram 6. This doesn't conflict with the fact that I'm a pretty optimistic person. You want to shape the future towards a positive result and the way you do that is to recognize problems in advance and take actions to prevent them from occurring or produce a more positive result moving forward. People sometimes view this as being overly critical. They don't see any immediate problem. It's something I bring to projects at work. I'm very good at seeing what can go wrong before it goes wrong and take actions to prevent the bad things from occurring.
    This is soooo TRUE...and the first time someone could put that PERFECTLY into words for me...I wish you could explain that to me ISFP boss...whom seems to take everything personally...which is funny= ironic and not really funny...AT ALL....because i find feelers....mostly Fi doms to be the MOST critical of all types!!!! she tells us all we have no common sense and can't think out of the box...which i probably don't and can't but she can't take any improvement "critizism" = knowledge in reality...

    sorry for the rant...ha ha work sucks and my bf doesn't listen ha ha

  8. #58
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    also INTP can you explain to me again how certain combinations of function can look like something else? pretty please?
    you need to keep in mind that introversion is about removing irrelevant aspects of something and extraverting is adding relevant aspects to something.

    for example Fe might make feeling judgment about external world, then Ti abstracting from this. Fe is creating sort of framework according to its own principle(of worth, which doesent follow the principle of logic), in which Ti is working in and removing irrelevant aspects from according to principle of logic. now when Ti is doing this, it might seem that its an Fi judgment, because the framework in which Ti is working in(abstracting/introverting from) is dictated by F.

    dunno if this sort of example is what you are looking for.. but "i want a fancy new phone, even tho my old one is working perfectly well and does everything i need to do" is adding feeling value to external object(this wanting a new phone thing can be accomplished by other functions as well, but so can pretty much anything). now i dont think any Ti dom/aux would be just go and buy some random phone that looks fancy, you need to choose one and when cutting the options to one phone, this is where Ti comes to work by removing options that would be illogical, like there is no logic in buying a phone with 250mb RAM, if you can get one with 600mb and not lose some other important aspects you want to have in the phone. you see even tho the choosing that phone is Ti activity, what Ti is choosing from here is an F thing(but it could be T thing, if there is some reason to buy a new phone).

    now this Ti>Fe guy comes to you and is like "hey i bought this fancy new phone, even tho i didnt need to buy it" and he could had bought something else with that money which would make more logic. doesent that look quite a bit like he made the decision because of Fi? especially if you read some crap like this: "Feeling people makes decisions based on feelings, so the Introverted Feeling function allows a person to know what they value."

    similar thing might happen with other function, like with Ne. you add to external object according to the principle of possibility, then remove from those possibilities according to some other principle of an introverted function.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #59
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    But look at any in-depth conversation you've ever had with an Ni-dom: they seem to bring up points that don't seem to relate to your points at all, except that they do, when you think about it. It just isn't as natural a relationship, for you.
    I actually have to be careful about doing this especially in conversations with fairly literal-minded people - I end up really confusing them or I have to tell the story backwards or explain in a very clunky way how what I'm saying actually does relate to what we were talking about. And most people end up confused anyway. Sometimes when these Ni-trains of thought pop into my head I just restrain myself, unless I'm with another Ni-dom or someone I know can take it, or perhaps most importantly, just someone who knows me really well, regardless of type...
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  10. #60
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    For what Ni feels like take a look at Fiona Apple's video posted in this thread. That explained it very well for me (even though it is not my natural function).
    Could you please explain how a video of a woman singing with the backdrop of rioting people is supposed to explain introverted intuition? I'm genuinely interested.

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