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  1. #41
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    INTJ example - I looked and looked at the code and the issue could be here or here because of XYZ(theory). What do you think? Lets talk about this and see where the issue is.

    ISTP response - Put a debug point and see what you get.

    I can talk theory all day long, but at the end of they day reality is what leads to what is. This is usually followed by theory of what I think it is based on knowledge I have gained from past experience. This is different then ISTJ past experience as I dont say do XYZ...I will explain the principle behind what I believe is happening and why, but my "default" is "add debug points to see EXACTLY what is happening."

    INTJs can be major head cases just like ISTJs. Its not like they cant go to reality, as in what is happening right now, but its not the way they naturally think.


    ISTJ example - *Looks at car crash* I wonder what happened?
    ISTP response - The car hit the pole
    ISTJ - Smart ass...I bet they were talking on the phone
    ISTP response - beats me, I have no idea.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #42
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    and you don't relate to doing both at different times?
    That's a good question. I think it is a matter of focus. Maybe I can explain it this way -

    Ne doms seem very connected with what's going on around them. It is very much real time, more about ideas and options, discerning emerging patterns about what is going on and reading between the lines. You're fully engaged with the outside world on a minute by minute basis while coming up with these perceptions which are in a sense detached from that.

    An Ni dom is much more internally focused and not so connected to what's going on around them. You're converging all of these nebulous things you have in your head into a focused perception of a situation or what will happen in the future. You do it on your own. It is not so connected to what is going on in the outside world at any given moment.

    These things help to explain why an Ne dom will appear very engaging with others and their thoughts seem to fly all over the place. They're quick. An Ni dom will talk much less but when they do say something it will tend to be insightful. It takes them a while to synthesize or crystalize their thoughts. They are slower and since it is an internal process they are not so engaging. In person, I find interacting with Ne'ers to be exciting. They provide insights and ideas that help to provide the fuel which leads to my ultimate perspective.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  3. #43
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Also, I don't know if this is Ni-dom specific, but I tend to find myself resorting repeatedly to certain metaphors or archetypal images and I gradually start to realise what they stand for or what they are telling me.
    ^

    I tend to "know" when two different authors who might not even have read each other are working from the same...collective unconscious, to take the Jungian route, I guess. I can see that they are using parallel or almost identical metaphors and how their works reveal things about each other's work and how the human mind acts and reacts.
    ^
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #44
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    and you don't relate to doing both at different times?
    No. What? No, still no. Inside the head is converging, outside the head is diverging. Inside I'm bringing things together, outside I'm itemising or distinguishing or allocating.

    Are you owning up to ESFP?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #45
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    For what Ni feels like take a look at Fiona Apple's video posted in this thread. That explained it very well for me (even though it is not my natural function).
    lol

    This is a better direct link.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  6. #46
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    would you say that intjs can pinpoint someone elses train of thought easily and that infjs can intuit someones intentions or emotional objective?
    Here are some examples of things I've noticed way before others seem to:
    There have been several situations where I've been able to tell that people secretly romantically like each other and are trying to hide it from the rest of the world. I picked up on body language, tone of voice, what was said, and other cues that the people around me didn't seem to notice.
    I seem to be able to hone in on relationship problems and feel compelled to find solutions.
    I can intuit that something isn't right about a person, but not what their actual intentions are. Maybe, with time and information, and depending on how well I already know the person, I might be able to figure out the intentions also.
    I've known that something was off about my mom or my cats before they showed visible signs of being sick.

    like...socially...do you find that you can get in synch with others easily...because you can intuit where they're coming from?
    I'm not sure that it works that way for me. From my POV, I'm just being me and a lot of people seem to be drawn to that. I don't always feel in sync with them, but they seem to think that I am. I do adjust myself to make others feel comfortable, but I see that as being courteous and thoughtful of others' differences. I think people generally appreciate being heard, and I think I have good listening skills most of the time. On the other hand, there are a minority of people who have absolutely despised me from the get go and I'm not always sure why.

    do you and did you when you were younger feel a bit psychic?
    I have never felt psychic.

    is your main focus on filling in the details of that hazy in the distance impression? wait...maybe that doesn't make sense.
    For me, it's not really filling in details. It's not like the more detailed info I have, the clearer the picture gets, because it doesn't seem to be a conscious process. It's like you throw a whole bunch of unrelated ingredients into a pot and put it over a flame and suddenly a cake floats to the top. I had the impression that there was a cake in there somewhere, but didn't pay attention to which ingredients would come together to make that cake. And I won't be able to see the finished cake clearly, until the right ingredients get thrown into that pot. I'm not explaining this very well. Sorry.

    but....does it feel like a calm laser focus? i mean...do you have that head in the clouds feeling? or is it more...calm centered sitting a top a mountain feeling haha
    It's more like a butterfly that's just out of your grasp. You can see it and you know that it's beautiful and right, but try to catch it (explain it) and you end up clutching at air. I never feel 100% right about anything because there are always so many more possibilities that I might have overlooked. So, I don't tend to feel calm or all-knowing. But I don't feel like my head is in the clouds, either. I think mostly I feel frustrated. I pick up on cues that are glaringly obvious to me, but not to others, but to explain what all those cues are and how they fit together is difficult. The connections don't always make sense to other people, so then I have to explain those connections, and on and on and on. In the end, either you'll think I'm a complete nut, or you'll think I have some magical powers that I don't have.
    Last edited by Eilonwy; 08-28-2012 at 06:51 AM.
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    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  7. #47
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    okay so i'm reading it and hearing you all but i'm not getting it.

    i get now why i always score high on ni tho because if asked i would say i do these things...but i shouldn't if i'm ne so i'm guessing i just not getting it.
    @uumlau please if you will...can you give me an example. maybe a personal one where you would think something through one way and your enfp would do it another way

    also @INTP can you explain to me again how certain combinations of function can look like something else? pretty please?
    Sadly, the easiest thing to do is just get into a (real life, in person) debate with you, where the thoughts are being formed "on the fly", so to speak. The main difference is that for any given idea, my ENFP would just hop on over to yet another idea, and another and another. It's actually a bit of a struggle to say, "Hey, wait a minute, I'm still talking about THIS idea, not the new one you just brought up." To her, though, it isn't a "new idea", and it's just as closely related the original idea as my thoughts are, but it's a completely different path. In her perspective, she is anchoring off of her "Si points," one might call it, her personal archetypes. I would imagine that this is what you do naturally, too. But look at any in-depth conversation you've ever had with an Ni-dom: they seem to bring up points that don't seem to relate to your points at all, except that they do, when you think about it. It just isn't as natural a relationship, for you.

    Perhaps the best way to think of it is as two parallel idea-universes. Both perspectives are looking at the same thing, one with Ne/Si, the other with Ni/Se. They see the same truths, the same concrete points that are easily shared, but the idea paths diverge from that point, where Ni/Se tends to go forward and backward in time, while Ne/Si tends to be stationary in time, but explore landscapes that don't have that Ni/Se dynamic element.

    As for scoring high on Ni, the problem is that the descriptions of Ni suck. Ne+Fi is just as capable of mystical/magical intuitive flashes as Ni is. That's why I focus on the "timelike" and "dynamic" aspects of Ni vs the more "static" aspects of Ne/Si. And as I pointed out to Usehername, it isn't that Ne/Si doesn't understand dynamics, nor that Ni/Se doesn't understand statics, but that the thought-paths of Ni are especially good at understanding dynamics, and Ne/Si is especially good at understanding static patterns. Both Ni and Ne are intuitive, but they're looking in different directions.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #48
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    So in the way that @fidelia and I struggle to impose order upon our files with "names, kinds, archetypes," even though we understand the concept quite well and just struggle to implement it, other people struggle to work with our system. I guess I get that. Except we seem to be aware that we're sucking to implement their system, and other people are so damn cocky that they're right when they're not even seeing that 4th motion dimension.

    If I leave out a dimension of data, I can claim with authority that the earth the center of the universe. From this perspective it seems like they enjoy leaving out data so that they feel confident and in control. Just because they can't see it doesn't mean they're not feeling the ripple effects. I can't see the wind but I feel that it's there and it's moving and affecting me and my environment.
    That's a bit of a conceit. Ni doms regularly omit the Si/Ne versions of data/analysis. There's plenty of ignorant people on both sides of the typological spectrum.

    What I do see, though, is that people of differing types who take the time and pay attention, actually can see both sides of an argument, and perhaps even discover that they agree, even though they were thinking about things in completely different ways.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  9. #49
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    would you say that intjs can pinpoint someone elses train of thought easily and that infjs can intuit someones intentions or emotional objective?

    like...socially...do you find that you can get in synch with others easily...because you can intuit where they're coming from?

    do you and did you when you were younger feel a bit psychic?

    is your main focus on filling in the details of that hazy in the distance impression? wait...maybe that doesn't make sense.

    but....does it feel like a calm laser focus? i mean...do you have that head in the clouds feeling? or is it more...calm centered sitting a top a mountain feeling haha

    i mean...my impression is that you guys are like the all knowing oracle...haha
    I realized I didn't respond to these things. I'm very perceptive on reactions/responses to others. It's more about taking in subtle body language cues, facial expression, intonation of voice, etc. and arriving at conclusions about what I think they are thinking or feeling. I don't know if I'm very good at pinpointing their "train of thought" exactly but do get a sense for what they might be thinking at a given point in time. I get frustrated if I'm not able to read someone which does happen once in a while. I think I am pretty good at intuiting where others are coming from. I don't know how much of this relates to Ni. Maybe it's a lot. Not sure.

    I don't know about being psychic but there have been a number of cases where I have had things that popped into my head which I had no possible way of knowing and yet I was sure of what would happen in the future. Normally, I have some experience that allows me to form these insights but I have little to no control over when it happens. I can't will myself to do that with something that matters to me. It happens spontaneously.

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  10. #50
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Ne+Fi is just as capable of mystical/magical intuitive flashes as Ni is.
    I have seen this. Absolutely true.

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