What's it like being ni dom?

[Poki]

INTJ example - I looked and looked at the code and the issue could be here or here because of XYZ(theory). What do you think? Lets talk about this and see where the issue is.

ISTP response - Put a debug point and see what you get.

I can talk theory all day long, but at the end of they day reality is what leads to what is. This is usually followed by theory of what I think it is based on knowledge I have gained from past experience. This is different then ISTJ past experience as I dont say do XYZ...I will explain the principle behind what I believe is happening and why, but my "default" is "add debug points to see EXACTLY what is happening."

INTJs can be major head cases just like ISTJs. Its not like they cant go to reality, as in what is happening right now, but its not the way they naturally think.


ISTJ example - *Looks at car crash* I wonder what happened?
ISTP response - The car hit the pole
ISTJ - Smart ass...I bet they were talking on the phone
ISTP response - beats me, I have no idea.

 

[highlander]

and you don't relate to doing both at different times?

That's a good question. I think it is a matter of focus. Maybe I can explain it this way -

Ne doms seem very connected with what's going on around them. It is very much real time, more about ideas and options, discerning emerging patterns about what is going on and reading between the lines. You're fully engaged with the outside world on a minute by minute basis while coming up with these perceptions which are in a sense detached from that.

An Ni dom is much more internally focused and not so connected to what's going on around them. You're converging all of these nebulous things you have in your head into a focused perception of a situation or what will happen in the future. You do it on your own. It is not so connected to what is going on in the outside world at any given moment.

These things help to explain why an Ne dom will appear very engaging with others and their thoughts seem to fly all over the place. They're quick. An Ni dom will talk much less but when they do say something it will tend to be insightful. It takes them a while to synthesize or crystalize their thoughts. They are slower and since it is an internal process they are not so engaging. In person, I find interacting with Ne'ers to be exciting. They provide insights and ideas that help to provide the fuel which leads to my ultimate perspective.

 

[Kalach]

Also, I don't know if this is Ni-dom specific, but I tend to find myself resorting repeatedly to certain metaphors or archetypal images and I gradually start to realise what they stand for or what they are telling me.

^

I tend to "know" when two different authors who might not even have read each other are working from the same...collective unconscious, to take the Jungian route, I guess. I can see that they are using parallel or almost identical metaphors and how their works reveal things about each other's work and how the human mind acts and reacts.

^

 

[Kalach]

and you don't relate to doing both at different times?

No. What? No, still no. Inside the head is converging, outside the head is diverging. Inside I'm bringing things together, outside I'm itemising or distinguishing or allocating.

Are you owning up to ESFP?

 

[highlander]

For what Ni feels like take a look at Fiona Apple's video posted in this thread. That explained it very well for me (even though it is not my natural function).

lol

This is a better direct link.

 

[Eilonwy]

would you say that intjs can pinpoint someone elses train of thought easily and that infjs can intuit someones intentions or emotional objective?

Here are some examples of things I've noticed way before others seem to:
There have been several situations where I've been able to tell that people secretly romantically like each other and are trying to hide it from the rest of the world. I picked up on body language, tone of voice, what was said, and other cues that the people around me didn't seem to notice.
I seem to be able to hone in on relationship problems and feel compelled to find solutions.
I can intuit that something isn't right about a person, but not what their actual intentions are. Maybe, with time and information, and depending on how well I already know the person, I might be able to figure out the intentions also.
I've known that something was off about my mom or my cats before they showed visible signs of being sick.

like...socially...do you find that you can get in synch with others easily...because you can intuit where they're coming from?

I'm not sure that it works that way for me. From my POV, I'm just being me and a lot of people seem to be drawn to that. I don't always feel in sync with them, but they seem to think that I am. I do adjust myself to make others feel comfortable, but I see that as being courteous and thoughtful of others' differences. I think people generally appreciate being heard, and I think I have good listening skills most of the time. On the other hand, there are a minority of people who have absolutely despised me from the get go and I'm not always sure why.

do you and did you when you were younger feel a bit psychic?

I have never felt psychic.

is your main focus on filling in the details of that hazy in the distance impression? wait...maybe that doesn't make sense.

For me, it's not really filling in details. It's not like the more detailed info I have, the clearer the picture gets, because it doesn't seem to be a conscious process. It's like you throw a whole bunch of unrelated ingredients into a pot and put it over a flame and suddenly a cake floats to the top. I had the impression that there was a cake in there somewhere, but didn't pay attention to which ingredients would come together to make that cake. And I won't be able to see the finished cake clearly, until the right ingredients get thrown into that pot. I'm not explaining this very well. Sorry.

but....does it feel like a calm laser focus? i mean...do you have that head in the clouds feeling? or is it more...calm centered sitting a top a mountain feeling haha

It's more like a butterfly that's just out of your grasp. You can see it and you know that it's beautiful and right, but try to catch it (explain it) and you end up clutching at air. I never feel 100% right about anything because there are always so many more possibilities that I might have overlooked. So, I don't tend to feel calm or all-knowing. But I don't feel like my head is in the clouds, either. I think mostly I feel frustrated. I pick up on cues that are glaringly obvious to me, but not to others, but to explain what all those cues are and how they fit together is difficult. The connections don't always make sense to other people, so then I have to explain those connections, and on and on and on. In the end, either you'll think I'm a complete nut, or you'll think I have some magical powers that I don't have.

 

[uumlau]

okay so i'm reading it and hearing you all but i'm not getting it.

i get now why i always score high on ni tho because if asked i would say i do these things...but i shouldn't if i'm ne so i'm guessing i just not getting it.
[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] please if you will...can you give me an example. maybe a personal one where you would think something through one way and your enfp would do it another way

also [MENTION=7595]INTP[/MENTION] can you explain to me again how certain combinations of function can look like something else? pretty please?

Sadly, the easiest thing to do is just get into a (real life, in person) debate with you, where the thoughts are being formed "on the fly", so to speak. The main difference is that for any given idea, my ENFP would just hop on over to yet another idea, and another and another. It's actually a bit of a struggle to say, "Hey, wait a minute, I'm still talking about THIS idea, not the new one you just brought up." To her, though, it isn't a "new idea", and it's just as closely related the original idea as my thoughts are, but it's a completely different path. In her perspective, she is anchoring off of her "Si points," one might call it, her personal archetypes. I would imagine that this is what you do naturally, too. But look at any in-depth conversation you've ever had with an Ni-dom: they seem to bring up points that don't seem to relate to your points at all, except that they do, when you think about it. It just isn't as natural a relationship, for you.

Perhaps the best way to think of it is as two parallel idea-universes. Both perspectives are looking at the same thing, one with Ne/Si, the other with Ni/Se. They see the same truths, the same concrete points that are easily shared, but the idea paths diverge from that point, where Ni/Se tends to go forward and backward in time, while Ne/Si tends to be stationary in time, but explore landscapes that don't have that Ni/Se dynamic element.

As for scoring high on Ni, the problem is that the descriptions of Ni suck. Ne+Fi is just as capable of mystical/magical intuitive flashes as Ni is. That's why I focus on the "timelike" and "dynamic" aspects of Ni vs the more "static" aspects of Ne/Si. And as I pointed out to Usehername, it isn't that Ne/Si doesn't understand dynamics, nor that Ni/Se doesn't understand statics, but that the thought-paths of Ni are especially good at understanding dynamics, and Ne/Si is especially good at understanding static patterns. Both Ni and Ne are intuitive, but they're looking in different directions.

 

[uumlau]

So in the way that [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] and I struggle to impose order upon our files with "names, kinds, archetypes," even though we understand the concept quite well and just struggle to implement it, other people struggle to work with our system. I guess I get that. Except we seem to be aware that we're sucking to implement their system, and other people are so damn cocky that they're right when they're not even seeing that 4th motion dimension.

If I leave out a dimension of data, I can claim with authority that the earth the center of the universe. From this perspective it seems like they enjoy leaving out data so that they feel confident and in control. Just because they can't see it doesn't mean they're not feeling the ripple effects. I can't see the wind but I feel that it's there and it's moving and affecting me and my environment.

That's a bit of a conceit. Ni doms regularly omit the Si/Ne versions of data/analysis. There's plenty of ignorant people on both sides of the typological spectrum.

What I do see, though, is that people of differing types who take the time and pay attention, actually can see both sides of an argument, and perhaps even discover that they agree, even though they were thinking about things in completely different ways.

 

[highlander]

would you say that intjs can pinpoint someone elses train of thought easily and that infjs can intuit someones intentions or emotional objective?

like...socially...do you find that you can get in synch with others easily...because you can intuit where they're coming from?

do you and did you when you were younger feel a bit psychic?

is your main focus on filling in the details of that hazy in the distance impression? wait...maybe that doesn't make sense.

but....does it feel like a calm laser focus? i mean...do you have that head in the clouds feeling? or is it more...calm centered sitting a top a mountain feeling haha

i mean...my impression is that you guys are like the all knowing oracle...haha

I realized I didn't respond to these things. I'm very perceptive on reactions/responses to others. It's more about taking in subtle body language cues, facial expression, intonation of voice, etc. and arriving at conclusions about what I think they are thinking or feeling. I don't know if I'm very good at pinpointing their "train of thought" exactly but do get a sense for what they might be thinking at a given point in time. I get frustrated if I'm not able to read someone which does happen once in a while. I think I am pretty good at intuiting where others are coming from. I don't know how much of this relates to Ni. Maybe it's a lot. Not sure.

I don't know about being psychic but there have been a number of cases where I have had things that popped into my head which I had no possible way of knowing and yet I was sure of what would happen in the future. Normally, I have some experience that allows me to form these insights but I have little to no control over when it happens. I can't will myself to do that with something that matters to me. It happens spontaneously.

 

[highlander]

Ne+Fi is just as capable of mystical/magical intuitive flashes as Ni is.

I have seen this. Absolutely true.

 

[Lady_X]

That's a good question. I think it is a matter of focus. Maybe I can explain it this way -

Ne doms seem very connected with what's going on around them. It is very much real time, more about ideas and options, discerning emerging patterns about what is going on and reading between the lines. You're fully engaged with the outside world on a minute by minute basis while coming up with these perceptions which are in a sense detached from that.

An Ni dom is much more internally focused and not so connected to what's going on around them. You're converging all of these nebulous things you have in your head into a focused perception of a situation or what will happen in the future. You do it on your own. It is not so connected to what is going on in the outside world at any given moment.

These things help to explain why an Ne dom will appear very engaging with others and their thoughts seem to fly all over the place. They're quick. An Ni dom will talk much less but when they do say something it will tend to be insightful. It takes them a while to synthesize or crystalize their thoughts. They are slower and since it is an internal process they are not so engaging. In person, I find interacting with Ne'ers to be exciting. They provide insights and ideas that help to provide the fuel which leads to my ultimate perspective.

but...we're not actually. i mean that i don't think ne doms are very aware of what's going on around us. i think that's why we like sparkly...or unusual things so much because everything is always a haze...all of it just blending together and rarely focused on...but the sparkly things jump out at us.

and yes...i get that our thoughts seem to be out of nowhere or scattered...but when we focus on an idea it seems to come into focus...which i was thinking is what you all were talking about. like perhaps it was sort reversed in each of us....but now i'm just confusing myself.

just...when you all describe it you're saying you have an impression of what may happen...and then you gather data to confirm or deny
and we gather many possible scenarios...but then focus on one and further define it...but...i guess in that defining process there is still a lot of ne bouncing going on.

so...maybe the words are confusing me because they often lead to the same result?? ahhh!! i don't know!!

i sincerely appreciate all of you all writing your thoughts on this tho...i'm going to let it marinate.

 

[Lady_X]

No. What? No, still no. Inside the head is converging, outside the head is diverging. Inside I'm bringing things together, outside I'm itemising or distinguishing or allocating.

Are you owning up to ESFP?

haha! whatcha tryin to say?? i would happily own up to it if it were true but i'm pretty sure my se sucks.

 

[Usehername]

That's a bit of a conceit. Ni doms regularly omit the Si/Ne versions of data/analysis. There's plenty of ignorant people on both sides of the typological spectrum.

What I do see, though, is that people of differing types who take the time and pay attention, actually can see both sides of an argument, and perhaps even discover that they agree, even though they were thinking about things in completely different ways.

You're definitely right. That post was written from the frustration of me being angry at someone rather than me talking about people pluralized. See? I still haven't learned how to deal with that energy of sitting on my hands in a productive way yet.

 

[Kalach]

haha! whatcha tryin to say?? i would happily own up to it if it were true but i'm pretty sure my se sucks.

Join us join us join us

 

[Reverie]

For what Ni feels like take a look at Fiona Apple's video posted in this thread. That explained it very well for me (even though it is not my natural function).

Or if you prefer the original...

(John ... Ni-dom? )

 

[Evo]

I have this problem. When I was a child I had great confidence in myself and couldn't figure out why people were making dumb decisions, so I'd tell them they were wrong, and the problem was, they usually were, so it reinforced this, and no one likes a know-it-all. Then I matured and learned you can't predict the future, so I became too accepting of others' POV. A lot of others don't have strong intrapersonal intelligence, and I should've trusted my gut to know they were misreading themselves. Now I'm just at the phase where I'm learning that I don't have to explain myself to people when I don't buy their largely unfounded BS, and I'm learning that by being stronger at predicting outcomes, assessing risk, and navigating that space, it's not a shot at them, it's simply a strength of mine. They're probably better at lots of other things than I am, but I'm good at envisioning the domino fallout.

But yeah, "distressing" is an appropriate adjective. It's tough to sit on your hands and bite your tongue after you've spoken up once and they aren't going to listen. I have no idea how to use this energy more productively. That's a maturity I haven't developed yet.


I absolutely have this problem, FWIW. It also might be more gendered that females are taught/expected to defer.

The same sort of events happened to me...I would listen to myself, others wouldn't see/understand/realize the truth and i took the more mature road...WELL IT TURNS OUT I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! GAHHHH! so just listen to you...not that you're trying to attack them or bring them down...you just have a strength...simple.

It really was a revelation to me that Ni people do see some things differently that others truly don't see. I remember encountering a thread complaining about Ni people seeming impatient that others couldn't understand what they were explaining, yet they didn't offer sufficient details for them to do so. It occurred to me when I was reading it that it maybe just doesn't occur to them that not everyone sees what seems really obvious to them (as far envisioning the domino effect) and they would feel they were being insulting by explaining it.

It's sort of like not realizing someone is colourblind and therefore not understanding that you may need to tell the person what colour something is. It is assumed that other people experience all the colours as we do and if those people aren't aware that they are colourblind, they can't ask someone to describe red etc.

I'm not suggesting I have some kind of superpowers, but it honestly never occured to me that some of those "facts" about how things will turn out isn't all that clear to everyone and so I can't be hurt or upset at them for not getting something that matters to me or seeing something the wya I do.

I still get mad at them asking because i feel like Ni is so hard to explain...i can't translate it...and then for some reason get that feeling that the person doesn't know me enough to know what i'm thinking/feeling....which i know is my own fault and is immature...but it is still frustrating...

-this could also relate to that whole stereotype thing about NT's...how they "think they're superior" or whatever...cause that's when i start to fit the stereotype...and I'm actaully ok with looking like a "know it all" or whatever.

 

[Evo]

I very much agree with the bolded items. On the creative front, I don't experience the frustration that you do. The way I create is to just start and then let things take shape. It's an iterative process of building pieces and cobbling them together. I don't have any kind of a clear vision as to what I'm going to create before I start. Writing and presentations are a couple of examples where I do this. The process can be painstakingly slow because I want perfection which involves a lot of revision.




Generally, I agree with your statements on how the process works but I think it might take INFJs a longer time to come to conclusions than INTJs.



I have a strong need to talk things through when there is conflict but it is for a very different reason. It's not because I'm trying to clarify how I think but to get things settled between the two of us - be open, honest, direct, try and see the other person's view, etc.



I recall doing what you said in my late 20s. I would know people were wrong or stupid about something and it would greatly frustrate me. Even if I knew I was right, I often didn't say anything because I didn't want to be abrasive and piss people off with my concerns where I could not articulate my reasoning very well. It would make me look bad. Now, if I am able to have influence or more direct control because I know someone well, I tend to assert myself much more strongly about these things. With people I don't know well, I will tend to ask questions that help them arrive at the conclusions themselves. Still there are other times where I will repeat myself several times and somebody doesn't listen. This tends to happen with ESTJs for example. Other types, such as INTPs are much more open to input.

That's an interesting way to go about things...In the bolded that is...I never thought about it that way...It may be because I just get to frustrated too quickly...but I guess I also don't know how i would ask questions and not sound condiscending maybe....sighs...people baaahh!

Maybe we have learned to stifle some of those thoughts because we are surrounded by SJs and SPs, who think very differently as you say. I still run into situations where I will interject something and people will just kind of look at me confused - where did that come from? what do you mean? how does that relate to what we are discussing? It's like they are missing the whole point - the broader implications - I can't easily explain it within the context of the current dialogue. It just gets blurted out.



I'm much more focused on seeing things that can go wrong in the future. Realize I'm also an Enneagram 6. This doesn't conflict with the fact that I'm a pretty optimistic person. You want to shape the future towards a positive result and the way you do that is to recognize problems in advance and take actions to prevent them from occurring or produce a more positive result moving forward. People sometimes view this as being overly critical. They don't see any immediate problem. It's something I bring to projects at work. I'm very good at seeing what can go wrong before it goes wrong and take actions to prevent the bad things from occurring.

This is soooo TRUE...and the first time someone could put that PERFECTLY into words for me...I wish you could explain that to me ISFP boss...whom seems to take everything personally...which is funny= ironic and not really funny...AT ALL....because i find feelers....mostly Fi doms to be the MOST critical of all types!!!! she tells us all we have no common sense and can't think out of the box...which i probably don't and can't but she can't take any improvement "critizism" = knowledge in reality...

sorry for the rant...ha ha work sucks and my bf doesn't listen ha ha

 

[INTP]

also INTP can you explain to me again how certain combinations of function can look like something else? pretty please?

you need to keep in mind that introversion is about removing irrelevant aspects of something and extraverting is adding relevant aspects to something.

for example Fe might make feeling judgment about external world, then Ti abstracting from this. Fe is creating sort of framework according to its own principle(of worth, which doesent follow the principle of logic), in which Ti is working in and removing irrelevant aspects from according to principle of logic. now when Ti is doing this, it might seem that its an Fi judgment, because the framework in which Ti is working in(abstracting/introverting from) is dictated by F.

dunno if this sort of example is what you are looking for.. but "i want a fancy new phone, even tho my old one is working perfectly well and does everything i need to do" is adding feeling value to external object(this wanting a new phone thing can be accomplished by other functions as well, but so can pretty much anything). now i dont think any Ti dom/aux would be just go and buy some random phone that looks fancy, you need to choose one and when cutting the options to one phone, this is where Ti comes to work by removing options that would be illogical, like there is no logic in buying a phone with 250mb RAM, if you can get one with 600mb and not lose some other important aspects you want to have in the phone. you see even tho the choosing that phone is Ti activity, what Ti is choosing from here is an F thing(but it could be T thing, if there is some reason to buy a new phone).

now this Ti>Fe guy comes to you and is like "hey i bought this fancy new phone, even tho i didnt need to buy it" and he could had bought something else with that money which would make more logic. doesent that look quite a bit like he made the decision because of Fi? especially if you read some crap like this: "Feeling people makes decisions based on feelings, so the Introverted Feeling function allows a person to know what they value."

similar thing might happen with other function, like with Ne. you add to external object according to the principle of possibility, then remove from those possibilities according to some other principle of an introverted function.

 

[SilkRoad]

But look at any in-depth conversation you've ever had with an Ni-dom: they seem to bring up points that don't seem to relate to your points at all, except that they do, when you think about it. It just isn't as natural a relationship, for you.

I actually have to be careful about doing this especially in conversations with fairly literal-minded people - I end up really confusing them or I have to tell the story backwards or explain in a very clunky way how what I'm saying actually does relate to what we were talking about. And most people end up confused anyway. Sometimes when these Ni-trains of thought pop into my head I just restrain myself, unless I'm with another Ni-dom or someone I know can take it, or perhaps most importantly, just someone who knows me really well, regardless of type...

 

[The Outsider]

For what Ni feels like take a look at Fiona Apple's video posted in this thread. That explained it very well for me (even though it is not my natural function).

Could you please explain how a video of a woman singing with the backdrop of rioting people is supposed to explain introverted intuition? I'm genuinely interested.