User Tag List

First 123412 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 122

  1. #11
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    it's just that i relate to so much of what you're saying tho...i'm trying to grasp how it feels...the key difference i guess.

    do you feel like your preference is ni but you ne things out a bit too if you need to? i mean is that just how it works?
    I would say it tends towards the self-fulfilling prophecy. An image is brought to us and we have this drive to flesh it out.

  2. #12
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    Nope - I would say that I don't identify with Ne at all! Ne users throw out a bunch of possibilities and throws them at the wall to see if they stick. Ni tends to just delve inside. In fact, I'm not likely to share a hypothesis unless I'm relatively sure that it is something worth considering seriously, whereas Ne will brainstorm out loud. I used to interpret this as being truly committed to these crazy ideas (like Fe and Te, it sounds kind of sure) that didn't seem thought out or viable to me. Once I understood that it is processed much like we use Fe to process people interactions and feelings, I quit seeing it that way.

    I don't know if I really feel anything as I'm using Ni. It's more like putting on a particular pair of glasses through which I view whatever is going on around me. Does that make any sense? Maybe it's that I don't put much emphasis on my emotional state (unless it is an impediment or is somewhat unusual for me), but it wouldn't even occur to me to consider how I felt when using a certain function.

    Yeah, I think it's like testing something to see if it fits and then after I have a reliable testproof framework, I have a trustworthy structure to hang new information on. This is one of the reasons why I am often reluctant to consider new ideas once I have done all that work. The slow part happens when I'm acquiring information in the beginning, but once I commit to it, I have to be well convinced that my initial framework was unreliable and I need to start over. I can see where it sometimes doesn't serve me well, but it's one way of reducing possibilities and also gaining some solid spot to start from.

    I believe I start out with a basic hypothesis and then see if it applies in a variety of situations. After I have determined that it does, then I start adding my other observations to fill in the details of the overall picture. Is that helpful?

  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post

    Ni offers an overall vision of what could be. I've found that Ni doms are very facinated by what will be the result of certain actions or catalysts. Ni uses a lot of observation and searching for patterns. As a function, I think it is pretty future oriented.

    .......

    Over time, this structure of past observations becomes a kind of framework for predicting the likelihood of various outcomes in the future. This is a time-consuming process (part of the reason why INFJs sometimes stay in relationships until they have hard evidence that they have exhausted the many various options that could yield a different outcome and until they have observed particularly behavioural patterns emerging and decided what they mean and then in altered any other variables they can before making a hard and fast decision against someone they have trusted in the past).

    I am occasional wrong about my predictions, but more often than not I am right. It is terribly distressing to see someone I care about or an organization I am invested in making decisions that clearly are going to take them to an unwanted destination and yet they can't see it until there is absolute proof of it.

    In a creative sense, I find Ni frustrating. I have a hazy impression of what a piece of art or writing could look like in the distance and how amazing it can be, but as I try to reproduce it, I am always disappointed by the result.
    I very much agree with the bolded items. On the creative front, I don't experience the frustration that you do. The way I create is to just start and then let things take shape. It's an iterative process of building pieces and cobbling them together. I don't have any kind of a clear vision as to what I'm going to create before I start. Writing and presentations are a couple of examples where I do this. The process can be painstakingly slow because I want perfection which involves a lot of revision.


    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Oh yeah - for me decision making happens through gathering information, but when the answer isn't immediately clear, it has to sit awhile. Then suddenly it seems to emerge. Unfortunately, I can't tell exactly when that will be and the more complicated it is, the longer it takes. Ni offers so many options and then options within the options that I almost find it comfortaing when there are some restrictions put on the situation or something to pare down the choices slightly.
    Generally, I agree with your statements on how the process works but I think it might take INFJs a longer time to come to conclusions than INTJs.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Similarly, I find that when I have conflict with someone, I need to talk to them to clarify how I feel (Fe) and also to reduce the options in my mind for whether I'm seeing things correctly, what their part in it is, how they feel about it and so on. Then after going away to process a bit, a whole other set of millions of possibilities pops up for me and I have to go back and reconsult the person. To some this feels like nitpicking or being unforgiving, but I really need their help to lay all those things to rest. If I don't have a chance to resolve those questions, it takes a much longer time for me to work through it all and move on. If the situation is left unresolved and it's a really big deal, or if it seems hopeless that anything in the dynamic will change, sometimes I need to just reduce the options (cut contact for awhile or distance myself) until I can step back a bit emotionally and the answer for how I should interact with the person or whether I should becomes clearer. I don't see INTJs engaging in this kind of behaviour at all, but I think that INFJs are a bit prone to it.
    I have a strong need to talk things through when there is conflict but it is for a very different reason. It's not because I'm trying to clarify how I think but to get things settled between the two of us - be open, honest, direct, try and see the other person's view, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I have this problem. When I was a child I had great confidence in myself and couldn't figure out why people were making dumb decisions, so I'd tell them they were wrong, and the problem was, they usually were, so it reinforced this, and no one likes a know-it-all. Then I matured and learned you can't predict the future, so I became too accepting of others' POV. A lot of others don't have strong intrapersonal intelligence, and I should've trusted my gut to know they were misreading themselves. Now I'm just at the phase where I'm learning that I don't have to explain myself to people when I don't buy their largely unfounded BS, and I'm learning that by being stronger at predicting outcomes, assessing risk, and navigating that space, it's not a shot at them, it's simply a strength of mine. They're probably better at lots of other things than I am, but I'm good at envisioning the domino fallout.

    But yeah, "distressing" is an appropriate adjective. It's tough to sit on your hands and bite your tongue after you've spoken up once and they aren't going to listen. I have no idea how to use this energy more productively. That's a maturity I haven't developed yet.
    I recall doing what you said in my late 20s. I would know people were wrong or stupid about something and it would greatly frustrate me. Even if I knew I was right, I often didn't say anything because I didn't want to be abrasive and piss people off with my concerns where I could not articulate my reasoning very well. It would make me look bad. Now, if I am able to have influence or more direct control because I know someone well, I tend to assert myself much more strongly about these things. With people I don't know well, I will tend to ask questions that help them arrive at the conclusions themselves. Still there are other times where I will repeat myself several times and somebody doesn't listen. This tends to happen with ESTJs for example. Other types, such as INTPs are much more open to input.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  4. #14
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Posts
    18,086

    Default

    so are you less aware of it because it's introverted?

    i don't understand really because i just feel like i use both...but maybe it's just ne and fi or something...idk

    okay so...rather than be flooded with possible scenarios...or truths...or ideas...or whatever it's like one singular truth...but...you then explore all the surrounding data to see if it supports it or redefines it?

    am i making any sense?

    do you think there's any truth to the cf tests that say you (i) would use both ne ni and fi fe? or do you think i'm just not understanding the questions?

    also...what kind of art do you like?
    do you feel compelled to create?
    do you feel like you live deep within your inner world?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #15
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    It isn't the same as truth, to me.

    I see it as just the way it will be. Truth has the connotation of meaning the right way will prevail, but it is simply seeing how something will occur with the knowledge you collect. It is tapping realities keg and seeing what flows forth. It also isn't necessarily truth because this intuition can fail. Also this idea of truth implies that we know/understand everything that we see; however, I think that the point I made before this one also covers that idea of truth, too. We still want it to be what we see. This is why Se is important. We need to understand that our visions need the environment to cooperate and simply wishing, or willing it to our own liking won't work and that the environment will have it's own wishes and demands that will be satisfied. Admittance to the fact we don't have complete control is a kind of goal and realization that is helpful to have, and in learning it we might actually succeed with more of the goals we wish to carry out. It's maximizing the amount of potential energy that exists in an environment.

  6. #16
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    so are you less aware of it because it's introverted?

    i don't understand really because i just feel like i use both...but maybe it's just ne and fi or something...idk

    okay so...rather than be flooded with possible scenarios...or truths...or ideas...or whatever it's like one singular truth...but...you then explore all the surrounding data to see if it supports it or redefines it?

    am i making any sense?

    do you think there's any truth to the cf tests that say you (i) would use both ne ni and fi fe? or do you think i'm just not understanding the questions?

    also...what kind of art do you like?
    do you feel compelled to create?
    do you feel like you live deep within your inner world?
    I think when something is so innate to your being that it is hard to pull yourself back and realize that the way you think is different than other people. Yes - I will tend to jump to a conclusion (or sort of a hypothesis) and then look for information to shoot holes in it to see if it stands up. It is more about gathering evidence to prove the intuition wrong than proving it right.

    I personally don't think we use our opposite functions much. So, I really don't think I use Fe or Ne.

    I like a lot of art but especially things like Monet, Klimt and Van Gogh. I'm compelled to create for sure but nothing artistic. It is more of a practical creativity. I do this at clients - solving new problems, innovating, communicating leading edge thoughts on stuff and things like that. I think written words are the most powerful way I express myself. On Friday, I collaborated with a project team at work on how to craft the storyline for a client deliverable. This is a creative exercise for me. It might be coming up with a framework of the components required to operationalize a solution. It might be developing a strategy or plan. I wrote a letter last year and it was something of a work of art in my mind. Designing and building the house was also very much a creative exercise.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  7. #17
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Posts
    18,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think when something is so innate to your being that it is hard to pull yourself back and realize that the way you think is different than other people. Yes - I will tend to jump to a conclusion (or sort of a hypothesis) and then look for information to shoot holes in it to see if it stands up. It is more about gathering evidence to prove the intuition wrong than proving it right.

    I personally don't think we use our opposite functions much. So, I really don't think I use Fe or Ne.

    I like a lot of art but especially things like Monet, Klimt and Van Gogh. I'm compelled to create for sure but nothing artistic. It is more of a practical creativity. I do this at clients - solving new problems, innovating, communicating leading edge thoughts on stuff and things like that. I think written words are the most powerful way I express myself. On Friday, I collaborated with a project team at work on how to craft the storyline for a client deliverable. This is a creative exercise for me. It might be coming up with a framework of the components required to operationalize a solution. It might be developing a strategy or plan. I wrote a letter last year and it was something of a work of art in my mind. Designing and building the house was also very much a creative exercise.
    yes i can relate to that feeling...it just feels like thinking. i mean..it is hard to imagine others thinking process differs....conclusions yes...but the actual process.

    i think i'm just having a moment of being tripped out by the whole thing and wanting to experience it vicariously through you all haha

    it's interesting to me...the art you've chosen. for some reason that helps me make sense of it.

    so...your creativity is in the form of elegant instruction...or construction...wait that's not making sense outloud :/

    do you have an affinity for classical music?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #18
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Posts
    18,086

    Default

    i would very much like some more ti please..or something i can't get the freakin thoughts out of my head in any sort of legible manner!
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #19
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    It isn't the same as truth, to me.

    I see it as just the way it will be. Truth has the connotation of meaning the right way will prevail, but it is simply seeing how something will occur with the knowledge you collect. It is tapping realities keg and seeing what flows forth. It also isn't necessarily truth because this intuition can fail. Also this idea of truth implies that we know/understand everything that we see
    ; however, I think that the point I made before this one also covers that idea of truth, too. We still want it to be what we see. This is why Se is important. We need to understand that our visions need the environment to cooperate and simply wishing, or willing it to our own liking that the environment will have it's own wishes and demands.
    Totally identify with what you just said here. Will have to chew on the other part. Hadn't really thought about that before.

    In partial reply to Lady X - I like folk music, I like photography (portraiture) and selected kind of drawing/painting (but usually with a human focus to it). I really like Rembrandt and Van Gogh. I also am very involved in music. Truthfully though, I see all of the art that I'm interested in more as a vehicle for human communication and interaction than I am in art for its own sake. While I appreciate a good piece of art, my satisfaction with art, dance or music comes from what people it connects me with, how we communicate, how it expresses something we feel in common, developing potential in people by using their natural strengths or developing areas that they were weak in before, valuable personal and interpersonal skills learned from participating in and improving at a particular discipline etc. Guess it must be the Fe in me or something. Sometimes I even feel like a bit of an imposter as a musician as I don't get satisfaction so much out of creating and perfecting my craft as I do in sharing knowledge and developing potential in other people in some way. The creating and perfecting is more of a means to and end than an end in itself, even though of course it feels good to produce something you are proud of or attain a skill level that I couldn't before.

    Do I live deep in my inner world? I'm not sure. I certainly need downtime to think. I don't think I really spend a lot of time daydreaming though. Sometimes I make up conversations (even out loud) to process things happening between me and someone else and to envision how it might go or give vent to certain feelings at the time. I find though that after awhile on my own, I need the opportunity to interact with other people for the things I thought about to be useful to me or to be put into action in some way. I get kind of wilty after awhile without people, even though I can't deal with constant stimulation either. Not sure how much of that stuff has to do with so/sx enneagram stacking though.


    In regards to how we zero in on something - I don't think I ever totally exclude other possibilities. It more looking at the big picture to see what it's pointing towards, taking a likely hypothesis out of many and then subjecting it to a bunch of tests. If it seems trustworthy in a wide variety of situations, then I flesh it out with more facts as I find them. However, I do understand that one exception could totally crumble the whole foundation for my initial hypothesis. Picking a working hypothesis is a totally subjective process (other than running it through other people's impressions as well as logic), which is why past observation, finding patterns, other experiences and so on all are relevent and extremely useful. I think this accounts partially for my interest in history (both in the form of family history and stories, as well as in a more generalized sense. I love biographies and books about how different cultures work/why certain wars happened/what things contributed to major historical events etc.). It is not so much a focus on the past, but rather a focus on the past as it relates to predicting more accurately what may happen in the future.

    I personally don't know if I believe in the whole you-can-use-both-ni-ne/fi-fe etc sort of thing. I don't really have anything solid to base that on though other than my own experience, Simulated World's obsession with the topic at a time when I was learning about what the functions were and my own skepticism at the results of my and other's function order tests.

  10. #20
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think when something is so innate to your being that it is hard to pull yourself back and realize that the way you think is different than other people. Yes - I will tend to jump to a conclusion (or sort of a hypothesis) and then look for information to shoot holes in it to see if it stands up. It is more about gathering evidence to prove the intuition wrong than proving it right. I personally don't think we use our opposite functions much. So, I really don't think I use Fe or Ne.

    I like a lot of art but especially things like Monet, Klimt and Van Gogh. I'm compelled to create for sure but nothing artistic. It is more of a practical creativity. I do this at clients - solving new problems, innovating, communicating leading edge thoughts on stuff and things like that. I think written words are the most powerful way I express myself. On Friday, I collaborated with a project team at work on how to craft the storyline for a client deliverable. This is a creative exercise for me. It might be coming up with a framework of the components required to operationalize a solution. It might be developing a strategy or plan. I wrote a letter last year and it was something of a work of art in my mind. Designing and building the house was also very much a creative exercise.
    You explained the above in bold perfectly for me. I feel the same way.

    I never thought about how I create before, but that's exactly it - practical creativity. For me, I think it has a lot to do with solving problems. I thought it was interesting how you explained about testing something by shooting holes in it. I realized that I may sound negative sometimes to people, but my first focus is on improving the places where there are problems. If I am around people I don't know well, I stifle the compulsion to discuss what I see, but it is difficult to do. From personal experience, I've found that others often don't think in those terms and so can be annoyed or misunderstand me if I give voice to my observations.

    Strangely enough, for interpersonal interaction, I tend to feel most comfortable looking for areas of similarity first before bringing up areas where we disagree (Fe, I guess?). In terms of looking at a situation though, I gravitate right away towards how things could work even better, or what is preventing something from working effectively.

    This is what I was alluding to before with "furniture moving" in my head. For example, I'll go to a meeting and right away think about how it could have been set up differently to get better results. I used to wonder if I was just a really critical person, but I don't think that's really it, so much as a compulsion to keep improving things or preventing unnecessary problems..

Similar Threads

  1. What's it like to be a Thinker?
    By nightning in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 07-06-2009, 02:01 AM
  2. What's it like to be a Feeler?
    By Tallulah in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 133
    Last Post: 04-11-2009, 09:26 PM
  3. What's it like to be a guy?
    By Giggly in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 378
    Last Post: 12-06-2008, 06:22 AM
  4. What's it like to be a Thinker?
    By nolla in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 11-09-2008, 04:10 PM
  5. What is it like to be human?
    By Grayscale in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-07-2008, 01:32 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO