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  1. #71
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I don't care if you call your self an NT, but after talking to you you are not very logical. I not saying that you aren't smart enough to be logical only that you seem to rebel against the idea of logical principles and though process in favor of your subjective experiences and mysticism. In terms of MBTI that would make you an Fi user probably,simply because that is how the MBTI categorizes people who hold these types of views. I wish I were an ESFP or an INTJ but I can't just redefine what it means to be that type. If I did it would simply be renaming the INTP.
    No, that would likely make someone an N-dom. A Fi-dom is a dominant rational .
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #72
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    The reason it seems to be NT types the most often has nothing to do with them thinking they're smarter or anything like that. It's because of their drive for truth and knowledge. It's right there in the description and it's seriously true about them.

    When a person says they're one type, but then they go on to do and say a TON of things that don't match up, it has these effects:

    It bugs the shit out of us because it doesn't make sense. It's not a personal thing at all, it (the situation) just doesn't make sense. We want and hunger for truth no matter what it is.

    It bothers us when falsities are perpetuated and grow thus kicking truth in the mouth even more. When a person who doesn't seem AT ALL like the type they claim, then go on to give advice constantly, then that's seen as false data being spouted off as true and it's not without a victim. That person is giving wrong information to someone who will believe it and then possibly repeat it and the amount of wrong that can grow and grow and grow makes us want to pull our f*cking hair out.

    It's horrendously worse if someone claims to be a type like ours and then does and says things that fly in the face of it thus basically spreading their wrong, but now it's about US in a way. And, while you can insult us all day long on our faults and get nowhere (we embrace truth and pretty much know our faults, so we shrug off someone pointing out the obvious), someone spreading untruths thus feeding stupidity/ignorance will bother us a lot more.

    As a NT, it's not personal at all. It's just noticing something we can't help but notice, and sometimes, it can get to us a bit.
    Last edited by digesthisickness; 08-20-2012 at 07:46 AM. Reason: misspelled a word
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  3. #73
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No, that would likely make someone an N-dom. A Fi-dom is a dominant rational .

    Mysticism maybe but Fi dom is about subjective experience, right? Their inner sense of right and wrong.

    Is the winky sarcasm? I'm not much for body language as an NT.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    The reason it seems to be NT types the most often has nothing to do with them thinking they're smarter or anything like that. It's because of their drive for truth and knowledge. It's right there in the description and it's seriously true about them.

    When a person says they're one type, but then go on to do and say a TON of things that don't match up, it has these effects:

    It bugs the shit out of us because it doesn't make sense. It's not a personal thing at all, it (the situation) just doesn't make sense. We want and hunger for truth no matter what it is.

    It bothers us when falsities are perpetuated and grow thus kicking truth in the mouth even more. When a person who doesn't seem AT ALL like the type they claim, then go on to give advice constantly, then that's seen as false data being spouted off as true and it's not without a victim. That person is giving wrong information to someone who will believe it and then possibly repeat it and the amount of wrong that can grow and grow and grow makes us want to pull our f*cking hair out.

    It's horrendously worse if someone claims to be a type like ours and then does and says things that fly in the face of it thus basically spreading their wrong, but now it's about US in a way. And, while you can insult us all day long on our faults and get nowhere (we embrace truth and pretty much know our faults, so we shrug off someone pointing out the obvious), someone spreading untruths thus feeding stupidity/ignorance will bother us a lot more.

    As a NT, it's not personal at all. It's just noticing something we can't help but notice, and sometimes, it can get to us a bit.

    Yes. We should have recruited the ENTPs to do the explaining long, long ago.

    @greenfairy

    It really isn't personal. I think most of the INTPs don't really care about what you type yourself as. I at least am more frustrated that you don't seem to see how what you say is incongruent with the MBTI description of an INTP.

  5. #75
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Mysticism maybe but Fi dom is about subjective experience, right? Their inner sense of right and wrong.

    Is the winky sarcasm? I'm not much for body language as an NT.
    No, the wink means "I am clueing you in". I don't particularly like the word "experience" for Fi, because there's far more connection of experience to perception than to judging (which is more about structuring experience), but I won't harp on semantics (or did I just?). The general description you wrote fits N-dom better, that is all.

    And I'm becoming dangerously close to implying the OP is a certain type....
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #76
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    It doesn't really matter anyways.

    Most of this stuff is just a pipe dream and those arguing over semantics are wasting time.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No, the wink means "I am clueing you in". I don't particularly like the word "experience" for Fi, because there's far more connection of experience to perception than to judging (which is more about structuring experience), but I won't harp on semantics (or did I just?). The general description you wrote fits N-dom better, that is all.

    And I'm becoming dangerously close to implying the OP is a certain type....

    How would you describe Fi then?

  8. #78
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    How would you describe Fi then?
    A process which forms a model of the ideal by exploring concepts in the inner world. The concepts of "good", "bad" & all that is inbetween are defined & refined, so that a gauge is created to hold reality up against. If Ti defines "what is", then Fi defines its value, mainly in terms of the human condition (yes, it is true, but is it VALUABLE?). Based on what? Well what does Ti base its judgments on? It's not really day to day experience, is it? No, the basis is the inner world & whatever exploration goes on there. I suppose you could call that experience if you want to (the experiences in the inner world), but I'd still associate "experience" more with perceiving, or perhaps extroversion.

    So Fi is subjective, but so is Ti, as subjective in MBTI/Jungian terms just means the inner world is the focus, or that the process is introverted. We all know extroverts' thinking is subjective as well, if using subjective in the typical sense.

    Of course, what is used to define/refine that inner Fi model can be info from Pe, so in the case of an INFP, that's intangible patterns, relationships & emerging possibilites. Not that I feel the inner world needs to be justified.

    So Fi is NOT "x happened to me, x made me feel bad emotionally, therefore x is bad". It's NOT "I just feel this is right! It's a sense I have about the universe". (BARF)

    Personally, I don't experience Ne as mystical; I experience it as realizations & ideas popping up or striking me. I experience Fi as exploratory and rational, not mystical either. Fantasy, emotion, experience - informative to Fi (& ANY function), but not Fi itself. Fi examines that & decides if any of it is significant or can help clarify what "good" & "bad" are.

    "Mystical" is most associated with Ni, but some Ne-dom probably feel that way too.

    Anyone who experiences valuation as "mystical" or mainly emotional is likely not an F-dom. This is a sign that feeling is less differentiated from non-cognitive aspects in the mind than it would be with someone who is F-dom. This implies their feeling is fuzzy, not clear.

    I'm probably going on weird tangents, but I've talked about Fi so much I have to find some new angle to keep it interesting....
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #79
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    A process which forms a model of the ideal by exploring concepts in the inner world. The concepts of "good", "bad" & all that is inbetween are defined & refined, so that a gauge is created to hold reality up against. If Ti defines "what is", then Fi defines its value, mainly in terms of the human condition (yes, it is true, but is it VALUABLE?). Based on what? Well what does Ti base its judgments on? It's not really day to day experience, is it? No, the basis is the inner world & whatever exploration goes on there. I suppose you could call that experience if you want to (the experiences in the inner world), but I'd still associate "experience" more with perceiving, or perhaps extroversion.

    So Fi is subjective, but so is Ti, as subjective in MBTI/Jungian terms just means the inner world is the focus, or that the process is introverted. We all know extroverts' thinking is subjective as well, if using subjective in the typical sense.

    Of course, what is used to define/refine that inner Fi model can be info from Pe, so in the case of an INFP, that's intangible patterns, relationships & emerging possibilites. Not that I feel the inner world needs to be justified.

    So Fi is NOT "x happened to me, x made me feel bad emotionally, therefore x is bad". It's NOT "I just feel this is right! It's a sense I have about the universe". (BARF)

    Personally, I don't experience Ne as mystical; I experience it as realizations & ideas popping up or striking me. I experience Fi as exploratory and rational, not mystical either. Fantasy, emotion, experience - informative to Fi (& ANY function), but not Fi itself. Fi examines that & decides if any of it is significant or can help clarify what "good" & "bad" are.

    "Mystical" is most associated with Ni, but some Ne-dom probably feel that way too.

    Anyone who experiences valuation as "mystical" or mainly emotional is likely not an F-dom. This is a sign that feeling is less differentiated from non-cognitive aspects in the mind than it would be with someone who is F-dom. This implies their feeling is fuzzy, not clear.

    I'm probably going on weird tangents, but I've talked about Fi so much I have to find some new angle to keep it interesting....
    How can we have an inner world with out experience? and aren't right and wrong, good and bad, just different descriptions of the idea of value?

    I wasn't trying to suggest that there is no reasoning beyond emotion in Fi though only that they give more weight/value to their subjective experiences. Where a lead Ti might try to strip away as much of their self as possible to get to the facts, a lead Fi wants to determine value and in doing so must relate what they are evaluating to their preexisting opinions of what is valuable. Basically I was under the impression that Ti leads value subjectivity less and Fi leads value it more.

    "what is" being objective. value being subjective. Neither necessarily better.

  10. #80
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry about it anyway because most of the folks here are mistyped SJs (there are a handful of SPs and NTs/NFs thrown in, but certainly not the majority.) The social hierarchizing by type is a clear sign of SJs.

    Notice how the dilemma became whether you're NT or NF? That's because, despite lip service to the contrary, few here seriously consider that they might be any of the other, more "ordinary" types.

    If anything, your goofy thread indicated that you'd probably want to strongly reconsider your being a T type, but other than that the possibilities are wide open.
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