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  1. #331
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    I think whether you are actually wrong or not, or even whether or not "wrong" can be objectively measured is mostly irrelevant. To the person with a problem with it, they are right and you are wrong and who knows why they care so much.
    I guess. Some people just really like to think others are wrong and they are right. And the degree of importance varies from person to person.

    *I on the other hand, cannot say for certain that I am right, or that others are wrong. I'm simply right about a few things, which I think imply others, which supports a general theory.

  2. #332
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I guess. Some people just really like to think others are wrong and they are right. And the degree of importance varies from person to person.

    *I on the other hand, cannot say for certain that I am right, or that others are wrong. I'm simply right about a few things, which I think imply others, which supports a general theory.
    How do you know you're right about those things?

  3. #333
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Also I've observed that a few people have gotten angry or frustrated by the nature of our interactions, resulting in avoiding interaction with me. I'd like for this to not be the case, because I value social harmony. I don't know how to change this situation.

    In my view I have expressed frustration, but not been outright rude or insulting. I have been a smart ass at times in response to what some people might perceive as hostility. I have argued and debated. I don't judge any of this to be inappropriate behavior, but my social skills are sometimes flawed.

    Perhaps it would have been better to not express frustration. I've seen other people do it, so I judged it to be ok.

    Perhaps I should have just ignored anything that sounded less than flattering and polite, but I've seen others behave in what I perceived to be similar ways and be (in my perception) received well. I thought it was fun. I wasn't sure how to effectively ignore it while continuing the discussion, so I judged it to be a more appropriate response than to try another approach and do it badly.

    Finally, I have obstinately stood my ground and argued my opinion, and I plan to continue to do so for as long as I am on this site. Perhaps this is inappropriate social behavior, or I go about it in a way which is not well received. My view is that I am trying to have a civil debate on a topic about which there is disagreement. I want to be thorough in my knowledge and reasoning, so I ask questions and examine inconsistencies. In searching for the truth I question the validity of others' arguments. I remain unconvinced that my opinions are false. I judge this to be appropriate behavior, so the response I have gotten should be due to one or more of the following: 1) some people dislike prolonged argumentation 2) my style of debate is abrasive or otherwise unpleasant 3) like myself, other people become frustrated when disagreement remains after prolonged argumentation. As for the first possibility, my response is that after a certain point I attempted to drop the issue and was compelled to continue by others. As for the third, unfortunately that can't be helped. As for the second, I am open to learning how to more effectively interact.

    I would like to contribute to a more pleasant experience for everyone. If you have respectful advice on how I am to do this, I will listen.

  4. #334
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    How do you know you're right about those things?
    Do we need to get into a discussion of metaphysics? I don't really want to discuss everything I think I am right about and all the reasons why. I have sufficient reason to believe I am right about these things as much as any rational person could have. The only other possibility is that I am fundamentally not rational, which I believe to be incorrect based on experience and confirmation from others who know me.

    I know by every means of arriving at truth.

  5. #335
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Do we need to get into a discussion of metaphysics? I don't really want to discuss everything I think I am right about and all the reasons why. I have sufficient reason to believe I am right about these things as much as any rational person could have. The only other possibility is that I am fundamentally not rational, which I believe to be incorrect based on experience and confirmation from others who know me.

    I know by every means of arriving at truth.
    Gotcha.

  6. #336
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Also I've observed that a few people have gotten angry or frustrated by the nature of our interactions, resulting in avoiding interaction with me. I'd like for this to not be the case, because I value social harmony. I don't know how to change this situation.
    Perhaps you should join in on this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    In my view I have expressed frustration, but not been outright rude or insulting. I have been a smart ass at times in response to what some people might perceive as hostility. I have argued and debated. I don't judge any of this to be inappropriate behavior, but my social skills are sometimes flawed.

    Perhaps I should have just ignored anything that sounded less than flattering and polite, but I've seen others behave in what I perceived to be similar ways and be (in my perception) received well. I thought it was fun. I wasn't sure how to effectively ignore it while continuing the discussion, so I judged it to be a more appropriate response than to try another approach and do it badly.

    I would like to contribute to a more pleasant experience for everyone. If you have respectful advice on how I am to do this, I will listen.
    You are overthinking this. The truly rude, insulting, and insufferable don't even bother to ask these questions. There needs to be give and take on both sides. You should feel free to speak your mind, but should also expect others to do the same. Even remarks that appear insulting or flippant can contain worthwhile feedback, and may merit consideration or even reply. The key is to separate the wheat from the chaff, and address only that, without giving in to provocation.

    If your priority is making a pleasant experience for everyone (Fe at work), forget debating and truth-seeking altogether and join a Kaffee-klatsch. If you prefer seeking the truth about yourself and others, or at least what will give you best results, don't waste energy pussyfooting around. Growth is more likely to come out of conflict than caucusing with yes-men. People may not agree with what you say, how you say it, or your reasoning behind it, but your social skills as demonstrated on the forum are no more "flawed" than those of many other members who (1) are well-received, and (2) don't beat themselves up over it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #337
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Perhaps you should join in on this thread.


    You are overthinking this. The truly rude, insulting, and insufferable don't even bother to ask these questions. There needs to be give and take on both sides. You should feel free to speak your mind, but should also expect others to do the same. Even remarks that appear insulting or flippant can contain worthwhile feedback, and may merit consideration or even reply. The key is to separate the wheat from the chaff, and address only that, without giving in to provocation.

    If your priority is making a pleasant experience for everyone (Fe at work), forget debating and truth-seeking altogether and join a Kaffee-klatsch. If you prefer seeking the truth about yourself and others, or at least what will give you best results, don't waste energy pussyfooting around. Growth is more likely to come out of conflict than caucusing with yes-men. People may not agree with what you say, how you say it, or your reasoning behind it, but your social skills as demonstrated on the forum are no more "flawed" than those of many other members who (1) are well-received, and (2) don't beat themselves up over it.
    Oh alright, good. If I'm not that unusual then it's probably ok. I thought maybe I was one of a few people on here who just didn't understand how to behave. But it's good to know this is normal. Ok, I can deal with conflict then. I'm not beating myself up over it, just trying to learn.

  8. #338
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Do we need to get into a discussion of metaphysics? I don't really want to discuss everything I think I am right about and all the reasons why. I have sufficient reason to believe I am right about these things as much as any rational person could have. The only other possibility is that I am fundamentally not rational, which I believe to be incorrect based on experience and confirmation from others who know me.

    I know by every means of arriving at truth.
    By the way, we're all fundamentally irrational. That's what makes it fun to be human.

  9. #339
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    By the way, we're all fundamentally irrational. That's what makes it fun to be human.
    To some extent. But too much chaos and confusion is not fun.

  10. #340
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Watch out @greenfairy if you aren't careful you might have these nut jobs typing you by what you....SEEM to be.

    *Shudders*
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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