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  1. #261
    Junior Member dobages's Avatar
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    Here's the deal: I find myself really frustrated after using Ti for a while. I find it very unproductive(probably because i use it to analyse this shit out of everything) because i fail to incorporate it. It just seems to pop the hell into my head out of nowhere on occasion when i'm socialising or something.

  2. #262
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    The first law of MBTI is that YOUR TYPE CANNOT CHANGE! You are born with a type and you remain that type your entire life. Can you act like other types or take on their traits? Of course you can but it will be a skill you have to learn and by the end of the day it will be an energy drain. Your real type is the state you feel most comfortable in, what is most natural to you. So do you feel more yourself being INFP, INTP, xNxx or whatever else there is?
    I think this should be emphasized over and over again. As someone new to MBTI, and trying to sort out my type, I have been put off by a lot of posts I've read that say stuff like "you aren't that way because you don't use Ti". As someone who is learning, I have been hung up on that. It is hard to figure out your type when you feel you may use all the functions to some extent, but people try to limit your functions to just a couple. That above bolded statement is key to understanding your type, I think.
    ( . )( . )

  3. #263
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    That I agree. (And the two of them always reminded me a little bit of each other). I'm trying to grant them something that may give off this "F" vibe they're talking about [that is, Jennifer, and someone else repping me], and the only thing I could see would be the avatar (this is the one from here):

    And yes, that's just a feminine image and does not indicate type; but people associate the "niceties" of it (like the pretty flowers and smile) as F or Fi, but my point exactly; it's not type; it's just feminine.
    Nooooo. I see how it might look that way but there are miles and miles between that image of a pixie and the fairie with the bow and arrow in greenfairy's avatar and the picture Jen is now using as an avatar. Miles. Leagues. Universes apart.

  4. #264
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    This is like saying:
    All wombats have fur
    l have fur
    Therefore I am a wombat.
    And isn't that type of thinking a splendiferous crock of crap? Indeed, it is.

  5. #265
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1941120

    Here is my response to the points you've raised, greenfairy.

    EDIT: Actually, I'm going to re-post my entire response on this thread, 'cause I don't understand why OP decided to answer my other post in THIS thread in her other thread. Besides, this post of mine does address some topics that are being discussed on this thread ATM. I have just skimmed over the forum FAQ page, and didn't find a rule that said I can't do this; please do inform me if that's not true. Thanks guys and here goes:

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Why?
    What would Ti look like in this particular situation?
    In what particular situation? You haven't specified one.

    A lot of people seem to suggest that I should just "admit" or "accept" that I am INFP, and my point is that this doesn't make sense to me.
    Really? REALLY?
    Good grief, and I spent so much time trying to show you that you aren't a Ti user, with technical details. At this point I'm at a loss for words; you simply refuse to be convinced, no matter how many people persistantly point out how INTP simply wouldn't be the best fit for you. Wow. Just... wow.

    Then how was it meant to be taken?
    I won't be able to get you to understand how it was meant to be taken before you stop making false assumptions about cognitive functions; I will address your false assumptions as I respond to the next part of your post.

    Why not? I think of them as skills, which can be developed. And people can change their preferences and adjust their behavior.
    So if what I think in myself to be Ti is really something else, evidently I am misapplying the definition. Which I don't understand and can't see.
    "Introverted Thinking: Analyzing; categorizing; evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model; figuring out the principles on which something works; checking for inconsistencies; clarifying definitions to get more precision. Analyzing your options using principles like comfort or "Red is a power color.""

    Analyzing: yes, I do this.
    Categorizing: yes, I am attempting to understand categories and place things in them. My mind works this way. Without categories I would have no way to understand the world.
    Evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model: I am evaluating all this according to the principles of typology and cognitive functions and assessing whether my observations of myself fit the framework/model of the functioning of INTP and INFP.
    Figuring out the principles on which something works: Well that's the point, isn't it? After believing that I have done this, if I think I am right and I am actually wrong, I must be either misunderstanding the principles or incorrectly applying them.
    Checking for inconsistencies: hence comparing myself to the types to see if they fit, getting feedback on my understanding.
    Clarifying definitions to get more precision: yeah. This entire post. Most of my posts on here. What is Ti? What is Fi? What are value judgments?

    You honestly see none of the definition in my posts? I find that unbelievable. Either there's a big misunderstanding somewhere or I'm crazy.
    A big fat no to both bolded statements.

    The cognitive functions are NOT, repeat, NOT skill sets you can "improve." According to Jung, the functions are the way we relate to the world, the Dominant and Auxiliary are those ways of thinking that we relate to consciously, they are what psychologists call "ego-syntonic".

    Let's take your definition/understanding of Ti - a set of 'skills' which includes "analyzing; categorizing; evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model; figuring out the principles on which something works; checking for inconsistencies; clarifying definitions to get more precision; analyzing your options using principles like comfort or "Red is a power color.""

    According to your definition, Te users would either not have those skills or not be naturally good at them. Don't try to tell me that our INTJ and ENTJ friends (and all other 6 types of Te users) are incapable of/not naturally competent in performing those 'skills' listed under Ti, for that's simply not true. Do you really think that only Ti users analyze, categorize information, clarify definitions, check for inconsistencies in their arguments etc. (with any degree of proficiency)? Do you really think that non-Ti users are not naturally capable of engaging in those skills and thus have to consciously strive to somehow learn or acquire them? I'm sorry, my INTJ best friend would scoff.

    Cognitive functions are 'modes of processing and expressing information/feelings,' and cannot necessarily be categorized in terms of how they tend to 'manifest' in a person. A person who gives a suffering friend a hug isn't necessarily operating on Fe; a person who analyzes and categorizes information etc. isn't necessarily operating on Ti. Fe and Ti COULD manifest that way, but that's not the way to pinpoint which cognitive functions you're actually using.

    My point being, the presence of "analyzing; categorizing; evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model; figuring out the principles on which something works; checking for inconsistencies; clarifying definitions to get more precision; analyzing your options using principles" in your post doesn't necessarily indicate a preference for Ti. I'm not saying that they're not there - but everyone does those things regardless of type (with varying degrees of willingness/success, of course; you're not very successful IMO, if successfulness is to be taken as an indication of true preference at all).

    No, it's just subjective and emotional reasoning, which is not the majority of the reasoning I use. I'm just including it. And the part about equally fitting both types so "picking one" I don't think is nonsense- if I have nothing to go on, and I don't contrast with the type I choose, it makes no difference. I now think I do contrast with the type, but I didn't at the moment.
    I don't even know what to say to this. Emotional reasoning? I have a different name for it: illogicy.

    That's all I've got for now; I'll check for clarity later, when I'm done with breakfast (it's 7:50AM in my time zone).

    EDIT: I realized I haven't responded to this part of your argument:

    And people can change their preferences and adjust their behavior.
    No. That's like saying a cat can turn itself into a dog by somehow teaching itself how to bark and wag its tail.
    Last edited by copperfish17; 08-24-2012 at 10:08 PM. Reason: grrr typos
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  6. #266
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Well if you really are extraverted but you are hiding it you have done a pretty slick job though I find this hard to believe.

    If you are type 5 and extraverted the most likely type for you would be ENTP but this won't work because you are introverted and if you try to be extraverted it won't be natural behavior.
    You're right, I've thought about it and I'm not an extrovert.

  7. #267
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1941120

    Here is my response to the points you've raised, greenfairy.

    EDIT: Actually, I'm going to re-post my entire response on this thread, 'cause I don't understand why OP decided to answer my other post in THIS thread in her other thread. Besides, this post of mine does address some topics that are being discussed on this thread ATM. I have just skimmed over the forum FAQ page, and didn't find a rule that said I can't do this; please do inform me if that's not true. Thanks guys and here goes:



    In what particular situation? You haven't specified one.



    Really? REALLY?
    Good grief, and I spent so much time trying to show you that you aren't a Ti user, with technical details. At this point I'm at a loss for words; you simply refuse to be convinced, no matter how many people persistantly point out how INTP simply wouldn't be the best fit for you. Wow. Just... wow.



    I won't be able to get you to understand how it was meant to be taken before you stop making false assumptions about cognitive functions; I will address your false assumptions as I respond to the next part of your post.





    A big fat no to both bolded statements.

    The cognitive functions are NOT, repeat, NOT skill sets you can "improve." According to Jung, the functions are the way we relate to the world, the Dominant and Auxiliary are those ways of thinking that we relate to consciously, they are what psychologists call "ego-syntonic".

    Let's take your definition/understanding of Ti - a set of 'skills' which includes "analyzing; categorizing; evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model; figuring out the principles on which something works; checking for inconsistencies; clarifying definitions to get more precision; analyzing your options using principles like comfort or "Red is a power color.""

    According to your definition, Te users would either not have those skills or not be naturally good at them. Don't try to tell me that our INTJ and ENTJ friends (and all other 6 types of Te users) are incapable of/not naturally competent in performing those 'skills' listed under Ti, for that's simply not true. Do you really think that only Ti users analyze, categorize information, clarify definitions, check for inconsistencies in their arguments etc. (with any degree of proficiency)? Do you really think that non-Ti users are not naturally capable of engaging in those skills and thus have to consciously strive to somehow learn or acquire them? I'm sorry, my INTJ best friend would scoff.

    Cognitive functions are 'modes of processing and expressing information/feelings,' and cannot necessarily be categorized in terms of how they tend to 'manifest' in a person. A person who gives a suffering friend a hug isn't necessarily operating on Fe; a person who analyzes and categorizes information etc. isn't necessarily operating on Ti. Fe and Ti COULD manifest that way, but that's not the way to pinpoint which cognitive functions you're actually using.

    My point being, the presence of "analyzing; categorizing; evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model; figuring out the principles on which something works; checking for inconsistencies; clarifying definitions to get more precision; analyzing your options using principles" in your post doesn't necessarily indicate a preference for Ti. I'm not saying that they're not there - but everyone does those things regardless of type (with varying degrees of willingness/success, of course; you're not very successful IMO, if successfulness is to be taken as an indication of true preference at all).



    I don't even know what to say to this. Emotional reasoning? I have a different name for it: illogicy.

    That's all I've got for now; I'll check for clarity later, when I'm done with breakfast (it's 7:50AM in my time zone).

    EDIT: I realized I haven't responded to this part of your argument:



    No. That's like saying a cat can turn itself into a dog by somehow teaching itself how to bark and wag its tail.
    Well. Thinking of CF's as something other than simple human processes would really throw my entire system of reasoning askew. Probably for the better. It'll take me awhile to find out what they really are. See what I mean? Lack of understanding of concepts.

  8. #268
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Also I am really starting to think I am indeed somewhat autistic. Which might make typing me either impossible or irrelevant (@Salomé 's suggestion, and echoed by another person whose username I forgot). It's not important, just potentially useful information. That would be a good thread: typology + psychological conditions.

  9. #269
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    wow, I've seen this thread title many many times. And I finally just read it the right way. I thought it was about "why do people have a problem with mistyping themselves?"
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  10. #270
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    wow, I've seen this thread title many many times. And I finally just read it the right way. I thought it was about "why do people have a problem with mistyping themselves?"
    lol

    That is an entirely different and highly debatable topic.

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