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  1. #221
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    (Thoughts: so in analyzing what I just said I realized I talked about nuances of tone, which could be Fi. But the way I picked apart the differences with pairs of contrasting terms is something that would have struck me as Ti before. I'm starting to see what Fi could look like.)
    What makes you think Fi doesn't "pick apart the differences"?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #222
    Junior Member dobages's Avatar
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    Someone type me, FAST! Based on such little info. Thanks in advance.

  3. #223
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobages View Post
    Someone type me, FAST! Based on such little info. Thanks in advance.
    INTP.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by dobages View Post
    Someone type me, FAST! Based on such little info. Thanks in advance.
    INTJ

  5. #225
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What is the "ultimate INTP" like?
    Like Me. Actually, I meant that I consider myself to be the most INTP.

  6. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Like Me. Actually, I meant that I consider myself to be the most INTP.
    Weren't you istp before? Or was that Craft(er)?

  7. #227
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Like Me. Actually, I meant that I consider myself to be the most INTP.
    I thought as much.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #228
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    I realize that I may come across a little aggresive with the following post, but in no way am I trying to offend you.

    You know, if you're really as sure as you seem to be about your type, why are you still looking for feedback? It seems to me that you're unwilling to budge on your preformed conclusion (that you must be some kind of NT), and that's why I deleted my second post in your other forum last night - I probably deleted it before you saw it. The impression I'm getting from you is that you aren't really interested in hearing an answer other than some variety of NT (though you claim to be open to debating on it). I would hazard a guess to say that many forum members (including myself) have simply given up trying to debate w/you because you seem to be so unopen to - even dismissive of - what they've got to say.

    Also, I don't understand why you aren't taking time to do some serious research on the cognitive functions yourself, 'cause I'd assume that the majority of members on this forum don't have the time to spoon-feed you the information you need. You have all the resources you need on the Internet. Granted, there's a lot of downright awful material on the interwebs as well - which is why you should exercise prudence when you pick your resources.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    All we have to go on are your posts, and people like andante have pain-stakingly (if aggressively) picked them apart to show where it looks like you are preferring one cog func over another. You refuse to listen to anyone. At this point people are getting a bit bored with the attention-whoring. Most newbs do not try to monopolise forum resources in the way you have. I mentioned before how inconsiderate I thought you were being. Not just with all the egocentric posting but other behaviours too (like your PM to me out of the blue, telling me to do something for you without even introducing yourself). When someone like me complains about your netiquette, you gotta know you reeaally fucked up.
    You have explained that you have poor social skills, are perhaps a bit autistic - such things make typing harder, and, honestly, moot.
    There's something passive aggressive about the way you keep needling people for responses, then not listening to anything they tell you. Then play the victim by starting threads like this one to complain, and elicit more attention.

    When I pointed out to you that Ti did not appear to be a strength, you answered that you sucked at all the other functions too, but somehow the net result gave you moments of greatness. How does one argue with that?

    I accept that you can be INTP and suck at Ti. I dont believe preference = strength. I do not think you are, because I mostly identify other INTPs by a kind of gut recognition I get when I read their posts. I dont get that with you. Nada. I'm not saying this is a watertight case, nothing in typology is.

    To reiterate, most people don't care how you type yourself. It's the other stuff that pisses people off. But I'm fairly certain, given your threads, you dont much care about pissing people off.
    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    Well, then I don't think you made your intentions clear enough - with both of your threads. I re-read the OP/first post of both, and neither seemed to reveal the intentions you supposedly had in creating them. You even had a poll asking people which type they think you are in one of them.

    I don't understand this statement. You asked for their opinion. They gave you honest answers (most of which you probably didn't like).

    Are you trying to tell me that the burden of proof is on the rest of us? To prove you wrong?
    I don't know. I'd say it's on you, mate. You aren't convincing anyone here unless you prove to us that you are indeed whatever type you think you are.

    In that case, do me a favor and collect your arguments into one coherent post. I don't want to waste time skimming through buttloads of posts just to prove you wrong. I have better things to spend time on, and so does everyone else, I think.

    So what type do you think you are at this point? Still INTP?

    Excuse me for being blunt: I've been reading over both of your threads, and now I'm almost 100% sure you are not an INTP. You don't sound like one, nor do you argue like one. I really didn't want to say this, but I can see so many flaws in your reasonings that I don't even feel like putting my time into listing all of them for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Srsly, the name "greenfairy" with that avatar can mean at most a couple of things, but normally usually and generally, it REEKS of INFP. I can smell it from here. And this sort of making stuff up that you do in your process also is INFP in a very big way. Take a spare handful of facts and start pushing them into some construct that bears little relationship to reality and going out the front door and then all around the universe in the most winding possible path to get to your own back yard kind of thinking. You call that Thinking, and I see how you could get that -- but that is not NT Thinking, not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. Your process makes the NTs snort in derision -- you can see how they are responding to you. And you are not responding in kind, either. So this is another hint -- if the people of the type you claim do not embrace you, you might be mistyping yourself. The NTs are rejecting you out of hand, without equivocation.

    I understand what you're saying -- you need pushback so you can grasp the boundaries; if no one pushes back for you, you just keep sort of drifting around and can't get the shape of the thing. But entering that kind of dialog is work and begins to be tedious after you've done it a million times, especially if the person is tending to be stubborn. So don't be surprised if you get some curt responses occasionally.

    Do your reading. Sit back and observe, too. Watch how other people play out their types and enneagrams. See who you develop kinship with. Etc. (which I'm sure you are doing; just trying to give helpful suggestions)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    I'm sorry but really an intp would just never say this
    Compare yourself to other intps. Can't you see the difference?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    which an intp wouldn't have!! haha i'm sorry but an intp would never even start a thread with this intention. it's just clear as day to me. i mean...i can't be certain you're infp...maybe you're intj.

    there's a frustrating quality here that i've seen in other intjs...so maybe there's something to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    I will now attempt at juxtaposing the workings of Ti and Te as I understand them, with the purpose of showing you that you probably do not have Ti in your top four functions (I believe you have Te instead).

    Notice that a number of INTPs have been telling you that you don't seem to be/sound like an INTP. Our dominant function is Ti, which enables us to build our own subjective logical frameworks/models we use to explain/size up the world. Basically, the gist of the argument the INTPs on this thread have been making is this: "You don't seem to fit within my subjectively defined framework of INTP. You + my internal model/definition of INTP = does not compute." The framework each INTP has come up with (through reading up on typology material, observing people of different types, and self reflection, in this case) differs more or less with each INTP - thus it is introverted thinking. It's subjective; it's individualized. We Ti users continue to fine-tune and hone our definitions/frameworks as new information comes in. The aforthmentioned "new information" generally consist of patterns and similarities between things/ideas that's picked up by our auxillary function, Ne.

    To me, this is not how you seem to think and reason. Instead, you seem to want to hear unambiguous, objective external evidence that would "prove [you] wrong (or right)" about your type, and use explicit (in other words, generalized) logical procedures in trying to determine your type. These inclinations seem to be what causes you to overrely on online descriptions/tests of MBTI types and cognitive functions (IMO anyway). You claimed to require external validation to form your conclusions in one of your other posts. That's usually a sign of Te. Also, this "I'm not going to change my opinion unless you can prove to me that I'm wrong/give me evidence, evidence, EVIDENCE" attitude is something I've observed in (presumably less than healthy) Te users, for the most part. Correlation, not causation, of course.

    Sorry if I'm not being clear enough with the explanations. This is proving to be a difficult task; I tried.

    Here, you seem to be saying that you decided against typing yourself a feeler simply because you hated "emotionally dramatic people and people basing their decisions purely on emotion." From this, it is possible for me to conclude that you're prone to typing yourself based on traits you like and dislike in people, and not necessarily traits you actually do possess. Besides, that snippet I put in quotation marks isn't a very accurate depiction of healthy feelers.
    A lot of this reminds me of not only my struggles with type, but also with life in general, where even right now (and for the past three decades, basically) I'm struggling with the notion of what's called "living life on life's terms" (Which both religion and secular self-help seem to boil down to, even though each calls the other wrong and says it has the "real" truth), and being on the "spectrum" with AS, have a lot of problems with that. (In fact, I was going to start a blog or thread on this, but decided to start off sharing it privately with Jenocyde on FB instead, since I know her a bit more).

    So I too in both areas have gone to peope asking questions, but then shooting down their answers, and continue asking, and the people get annoyed. Just a few minutues ago with my wife, in fact.
    Under the "expert" I mentioned, it was being totally confused by a bunch of distorted generalistic function and temperament definitions, and under stress from that, and the rest of what was going on in my life at the time, interacted similarly with her fans on the list, and was accused of a lot of the same things. Also, the prevalent "An INTP (or NT in general) would never say that".

    When I first arrived here, I was already worn out by that, and was getting some of the "you must be an NFP because..." responses from some early members, so while I did consider starting a "type me" thread, I basically figured it would be more of the same, and that I must figure it out for myself. (Luckily, Elfinchilde was still posting over on SpamPudding, and she could really break down a person's type with all eight Beebe function-archetypes based on the relative "strengths" from the K2C test, and that's what really finalized it for me, and then I really sought out more info on Beebe, which further put it all in place, and I could finally see how Fi really fit in my behavior, and what people thought they were seeing!)

    So greenfairy could possibly be INFP, but there are many other factors that can cause an INTP to post like she does. There's stress, "inferior Fe grip" (which will erupt under stress, and seek to "merge" with others in an unhealthy way, even if the subject matter may involve logical stuff), Demon or Crow's Nest Fi (the former, under more stress, the latter, when Ti is frustrated in solving the problem), being female can make a Thinker look like a Feeler, and as I earlier mentioned, being Supine rather than Phlegmatic. These must be taken into consideration, and that's why a lot of these generalizations are not good.

    She definitely looks like a Supine in Inclusion, which is a temperament that seeks interaction from others, and can be very wishy-washy about things. That could be either INP type. (But would rule out INTJ, which is a Melancholy in Inclusion, whose inclination is to reject others, and you see INTJ's even less engaging others in quite this fashion).
    So, @greenfairy, what did you decide about those links?

    Passive-aggressive sounds like a mixture of Supine with Choleric; Supine being passive, but Choleric being aggressive. Having opposite temperaments like that can be very difficult, because you are being pulled both ways, in both temperament dimensions, and this is certainly how it comes out for me.

    The aggressive behavior Salome mentioned sounds "Choleric in Control".
    Again, I'll press people for answers, and then argue, not listen, and shoot them down.
    So, greenfairy, does this one fit (this is a different "area" from the other one):
    http://www.pastoral-counseling-cente...ic-control.htm

    The Choleric in Control fits NT, but the typical "Choleric" traits have been deprecated in type theory (though you can find them if you look hard enough, including Keirsey's books).
    So many INTP's don't identify with it. However, Helen Fisher's "Why Him Why Her" test usually flushes it out of them, when they come up as "Negotiator-Director" (the "Director" being Choleric, and "Negotiator" being Phlegmatic and/or Supine). So you can try that one as well.

    A pure Supine (Inclusion and Control) can be passive aggressive without any Choleric influence, but it has a different motivation, which is generally to be taken care of or have others make decisions for them. I could see what others are complaining about fitting that, so you can see if this one fits instead:
    http://www.pastoral-counseling-cente...ne-control.htm

    Also, as in my experience, when an NP are uncertain about something, Ne is all over the place, and it just floods consciousness with a bunch of possibilities, but cannot decide on them. If Ji is being stifled by a bunch of conflicting or scant definitions, then there will be a lot of frantic engagement with the outside world to try to take in even more information to hopefully make a properly informed decisions. Again, right now, I've been describing some major decisions I have to consider as basically "TWO WRONG CHOICES"! (And in such cases, that's when Ji might actually switch T/F to its "right-brain alternative").

    Her method of processing (Evidence, evidence, EVIDENCE", etc) does seem more NT, but not the typical "calm, detached" portrayal. So it seem to me like simply an NT under stress. Though it is said that expending this much energy on a search for type is more like an NF's search for "identity" (but this can become a generalization as well). This too was once used on me, but my purpose for doing it was that type/temperament was a nice symmetrical categorization system that had the added practical benefit of helping understand people and my interaction with them. Hence, a dom Ti/inferior Fe reason.
    So you can look to see why it is so important for you to figure this out. It may be both an impersonal and a personal/interpersonal reason (as it was for me), but which one is the main reason, and which is only an added benefit. (Like a Fi/Te motivation might be it's something good for humanity, and a benefit is it helps us build teams).

    >But the fact was that I wanted to know if people thought I was another type because I do value being open minded.
    I think I see Fi right there.
    "Valuing" in that context is not necessarily Fi. Like we say "Ti values logical consistency".
    (Sorry for this being so long).
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    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  9. #229
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobages View Post
    Someone type me, FAST! Based on such little info. Thanks in advance.
    Sock puppet?

  10. #230
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    (Luckily, Elfinchilde was still posting over on SpamPudding, and she could really break down a person's type with all eight Beebe function-archetypes based on the relative "strengths" from the K2C test, and that's what really finalized it for me, and then I really sought out more info on Beebe, which further put it all in place, and I could finally see how Fi really fit in my behavior, and what people thought they were seeing!)
    Well, I love Elfie, but I'll be honest -- she doesn't scan like the type she claimed to be either. Just food for thought. So you've still got to filter all her information through that lens.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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